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Topic: 3 Phase Power to Homes

Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 02-02-2002 05:56 AM

Has anyone been able to find a inexpensive way of providing 3 phase power to their home ,or do you need some kind of generator? as my Ernemann IXs only have 3phase drive motors and Recitifiers and I want to run them at home while they are waiting for their home to be built.

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A KIWI eats,roots & Leaves.

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Chris Erwin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 195
From: Olive Hill,KY
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 02-02-2002 07:21 AM

Paul,

A rotary phase converter cost about $1,500, I think. This gizmo takes the single phase and creates the 3 phase power. It's pretty much a generator as you said. It's used in areas where 3 phase was needed but not available such as country drive-ins, small towns, or remote radio transmitter sites.

Hope you get to run 'em soon.

--Chris

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 02-02-2002 07:26 AM

Rotary phase convertors are somewhat noisy beasts in my experience! How about an electronic invertor from someone such as Fenner?? We regularly use these, with 3 phase motors on projectors, and wherever possible we install booths single phase for increased safety. Those units are really useful, you run them on single phase, 3 phase comes out the other end, and you can adjust frequency, ramp up time, ramp down time etc, etc.

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Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 02-02-2002 07:35 AM

Thanks for that as I have heard it quite expensive to get a 3phase connection to a home ,We run on 240 volts in NZ and for 3 phase get charged for the total amount of Amperage available to the Business or Dwelling even if you use only a small amount.

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A KIWI eats,roots & Leaves.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-02-2002 10:54 AM

You can build a phase "adder" pretty cheap. The basic design is just a regular 3 phase motor (also refered to as a rotary converter). The more amps you need the bigger the motor you need. And, if you want it to be self starting you have to add other stuff to it. But, the basic phase adder is pretty easy to make. Contact me off line if you want to talk about it.

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-02-2002 05:18 PM

About 10 years ago, I bought a 35,000 Watt 3-Phase open delta generator. It is driven with a 4-cylender Diesel Engine, (gasoline start-Diesel run) which is the same type that was use in the IH TD-9 bulldozer. I got the entire setup for 800 bucks, including 220 gallons of Diesel fuel, and a 250 gallon fuel tank. Along with that came a 3-phase Cutler-Hammer manual transfer switch, and about 100 feet of tri-plex service wire.

It comes mighty handy sometimes. However, I had to re-build my electric furnace so I could run it on 3-phase power as well as single phase.

If you can run into a deal like this, grab it! With 35,000 watts of nice clean power, it'll drive your big projection booth and just about anything else you might have handy.

The only drawback is the damn thing is not portable. It weighs about 4000 to 5000 lbs.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-02-2002 05:38 PM

I sucessfully ran my VIC 10's off of a roto-Phase, rotary phase convertor for quite some time. http://www.oceanmachinery.com/rotophase.htm
I bought the smallest one made at the time. It wasn't too expensive either, around 300.00 or so. Later on I ran all my shop tools, Verticle Mill, Lathe, and Surface grinder off of a larger rotary convertor that I aquired used. I think it would run up to 12 H.P. of motors. No problem here running all the shop tools at once! It was only a little bit noisier than a regular 3 phase motor and with it mounted on shock mounts the noise was not annoying at all.
Rotary convertors generate the third phase very ewll, and at about 95% efficiency as it has special windings to offset the loss that would normally be involved. Converting an electric motor to act as a rotary convertor can work but expect a bit of power loss in doing so.
Mark @ GTS

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-02-2002 05:50 PM

Mark
I still run all my CNC mills off phase adders but I have one per machine. Even with the expensive ones you wind up with a high leg, but that's ok. You just have to figure out which way your machinery likes to be hooked up.

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-02-2002 07:03 PM

I originally tried a Molyphase static convertor first. The bad thing is that they will not run a two speed 3 phase motor. Both my Mill and Lathe had these. The rotary can run almost anything. I don't remember having a very high leg at all. usually within 5 to 7% of what the other legs were. Thats certainly acceptable IMO.
Mark @ GTS

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-02-2002 07:46 PM

Yah while the regular legs would be at about 223v the high leg would be maybe 241 or 2. Once the machine starts up it pulls down the high leg and all is well. I have the three for the CNC mills and then one that runs the lathe and manual mill

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-02-2002 08:14 PM

We used a unit made by LENZ in germany on all the 50Hz ernaman 9's that were imported to canada (60Hz) to provide a 3 pahse (from single phase) drive for the 3 phase motors

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 02-02-2002 10:42 PM

The rotory converter greg speaks about is just a 3 phase motor connected to a single phase motor. the 1phase unit drives the 3phase unit by way of a coupler, or belt drive. The 3 phase motor has a capacitor across one of it's legs, and to start it, hit the cap with a 50 volt pulse and it will start induction. you have to drive the "generator" 4-5% faster than it's nameplate RPM to achieve syncronous speed. it depends on the type of motors you use, as not all types will work in this configuation. plus, you will need a very large motor to get a large amount of power.

The only real drawback of this device is it is very large, and if it is overloaded it will stop generating. This does however make it burn out proof.

Josh

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-02-2002 10:49 PM

Use a frequency drive. You can cobble together a rotary converter but it will take up a fair bit of room, be inefficient, and make some noise.
3ph power is almost universally unavailable in residential neighborhoods in the USA and Canada. I've never understood exactly why, but that's the way it is.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-03-2002 03:18 AM

Common availability of three phase power in the residential neighborhoods of the USA and Canada will probably never happen. (not in our lifetime, anyway.)

When I was a kid, the only thing electrical power was used for in the home was for lights and a radio. Home heating in those days was by an old coal-fired furnace or an oil burner space heater. Bath water was heated on the stove, and dumped into the bathtub.

The kitchen stoves were usually natural gas fired. We didn't have air conditioners in those days, either.

I don't know of any household appliances today that are designed to operate on three phase power. Most appliances rated at 240 volts (such as the heavy appliances like electric furnaces, air conditioners, etc.) would not be very efficient with 208 volts.

Although my electric furnace configures itself automatically to run on 3 phase power when I throw the transfer switch to bring the generator on line, it takes the furnace a little longer to do the job with 208-volt three phase power than it does running on 240-volt single phase power, since the elements are designed to operate at 240 volts.

Naturally, all the 120-volt appliances will run just fine.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-03-2002 06:06 AM

Josh,
Thats why off the shelf rotary convertors have special windings. No fuss, no muss.
Mark @ GTS

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