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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » 70 million Americans are now federal criminals (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 8 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 
 
Author Topic: 70 million Americans are now federal criminals
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-21-2002 03:04 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Yup that's right. Shame on you!
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-954591.html?tag=fd_top

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Don E. Nelson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 138
From: Brentwood, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 2001


 - posted 08-21-2002 05:23 PM      Profile for Don E. Nelson   Email Don E. Nelson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
.......well Brad, I guess I better turn myself in to the Feds. Let's see, . . . . the Dept. of Justice made their anouncement while vacationing in Aspen, Colo, so that means I better surrender to them in person, in Aspen. Do you think the government will "spring" for a non-stop flight or should I book a "cheaper" regular commercial flight?

P.S. I used to live in Aspen,(for 20 years).... a non-stop flight to Aspen means flying there in a private Lear jet.$$$$

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...more signal, less noise!

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Gracia L. Babbidge
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 709
From: Bowdoin, Maine
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 08-21-2002 11:55 PM      Profile for Gracia L. Babbidge   Author's Homepage   Email Gracia L. Babbidge   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-22-2002 12:21 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Boy, those RIAA guys are a hoot.

If everyone that has ever downloaded an MP3 file and burned it to a CD were thrown in jail, you would have a major portion of the economy/tax base suddenly taken away. With far less funds going into the government, just how do they expect to pay for imprisoning all those downloaders? Huh? Huh? Duh.

The prison system is already maxed out as it is. You could hold up a liquor store, and if it turned out you had an expensive medical condition --you would likely not do a day's jail time at all for armed robbery. I had a district judge tell me that one. The talk is all big and bad about throwing the criminals in jail. However, if the system doesn't have the money to pay for all that medical care (much less all the other creature comforts from high end gyms, support for every conceivable religion, a full law library, cable TV piped in and even a steady supply of porn mags) they're going to find ways how to let many people out early.

Again, the RIAA is being waaay presumptuous about prosecuting all this downloading garbage. They come off like I have an unstoppable urge to buy music CDs all the time and that downloadable music is somehow interfering with that constant unstoppable need for music CDs.

The simple fact is I don't to have to buy shit from the music industry at all (much less even download any of the crap). Most current music today is purile, formulaic, derivative SHIT. To make matters worse, companies like ClearChannel have gobbled up hundreds upon hundreds of radio stations, got rid of originality only to trade it in for the same tired formulas. They just play the same 10 songs over and over and over and over and over and over again. I could keep from listening to most of those stations, tune in several months or even a couple years later and hear the same few songs in the playlist.

I hardly listen to the radio anymore much less walk into a music store wanting to buy new CDs. I have a copy of Morpheus installed on my computer, but I cannot think of a new song worth downloading to even download at all. Furthermore, if I actually come across something I like, I may go buy the CD rather than just download an MP3. Most MP3 files have audio quality on par with radio. Hell, I can record the digital feed off the music only channels from my satellite dish and get better results.

If the RIAA is really concerned at all about their bottom line and vanishing profits --why don't they get pissed off about the shitty quality in general of their product and go off on a tirade about all their corrupt music labels and payola-taking radio stations? It makes no sense at all for them to get threatening to CUSTOMERS. A good response from customers is to keep their money and give the one gun salute.


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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-22-2002 02:36 AM      Profile for William Hooper   Author's Homepage   Email William Hooper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They were already criminals.
The story just says that they can stop kidding themselves that the property owners & feds won't pursue them "because everybody's doing it".

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-22-2002 05:23 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My major objection to this article is the implication that "the RIAA" = "the record industry", which is just not true, just as the MPAA is not the same thing as the motion-picture industry.

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Bob Maar
(Maar stands for Maartini)


Posts: 28608
From: New York City & Newport, RI
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 08-22-2002 06:30 AM      Profile for Bob Maar   Author's Homepage   Email Bob Maar   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is a good thing I like Bread and Water.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-22-2002 09:25 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bob you may like bread and water but I don't think they mix a good martini (unless you could get a doctors note it was for medicinal pureposes )

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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 08-22-2002 09:27 AM      Profile for Chad Souder   Email Chad Souder   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Finally, this action is long overdue, but I doubt any jail time will come of it. Lots of fines though.
Bobby - The number one demographic of music buyers is teenage, white boys. I would bet this is also the number one downloader, so they are losing money, even if its not yours. And on the note that you don't like today's music, I agree. I think its mostly garbage. Just remember, however, that your parents didn't like your music either, and nobody's parents liked Elvis. It doesn't mean that it doesn't sell.

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"Asleep at the switch? I wasn't asleep, I was drunk!" - Homer Simpson

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-22-2002 11:13 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I doubt the fines will be equal to a portion of the cost of collecting them.
They are totally wasting the taxpayers money

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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-22-2002 12:04 PM      Profile for Dave Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What is happening is that so many of these so called musical acts, are really just performance artists. Most of them cannot sing unless they are bolted tight into a chair and fed through a series of filters and background singers to make them sound decent. Most are not even writing thier own material, and when they do, it sucks. They have no musical ability.

As a result, touring is not happening as it used to. Revenues for the band never really came from record sales, but rather from touring. Touring supported record sales, and provided much more income to the band or musician than the album ever did.

Take into account the return of the band KISS. They recorded an album again that really was not all that good, it did not sell well, but in playing over 300 cities, they raked in nearly 86 million dollars in band income. You can't get that from record sales.

Most artists today could never fathom a 300 city tour. Just isn't going to happen. You think U2 got loaded from record sales? Garth Brooks? He has sold about 10 million records so far, but thats only worth about 15 million dollars. The money he has made has come from touring, making ten times that figure.

And to hear EMINEM complain in a recent article that people aren't buying his new cd, instead they are downloading it. Although I like his creativity, he has to take blame for targeting a large group of people that inherently don't buy stuff anyway.

The Internet revolution is allowing people to share music in ways that have never been done before. We must be careful, though, in our vigilance to end this. After all, are we trying to make millionares more rich? Is this the effort here? How bad is the problem?

Sources that track this kind of thing claim more than 100 million downloads occur every month, using various file sharing programs. That is probably very true. Unless they can come up with specific numbers of who is harmed the most, lets say Fiona Apple, her new album is downloaded 29 thousand times. Thats a harm, if she only sold 10 thousand copies. If lets say she sold one million copies, then there is little to no harm.

There must be a litmus test to find out if there is harm done a particular artist. the percentage of download must equal a percentage that exceeds a certain number before harm is equated, or the number of downloads must exceed a number depending on how many copies sold.

For instance..

ALBUM SALES... 20 thousand
DOWNLOADS..... 2 thousand

There is significant harm.

However the same percentage is less harm if the number sold is much much higher, say in the millions of copies range.

I doubt that certain acts are ever truly harmed. I hear nothing of really wanting to protect the small artist that has no financial backing to sue anyone for anything.

There must be a better solution to prosecution. This is not the answer. It will not work, but instead will breed even newer forms of piracy. Prohibition is the prime example of how to create a ban, and in adverse create a crime sydicate.

Instead, there must be a way to block the transfer of identifiable files at the ISP level. MP3 and other similar compression files do have unmistakable signatures that should be easy to identify and block from transmission, ending this whole thing. Why don't we get these brainy programmers to do that?

Instead of making laws to prosecute and follow up on that, and completely wear thin the justice department, lets take away the ability to do this in the first place. It can be done.


Dave

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-22-2002 12:11 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Look at it this way...

In the movie business, everybody knows that theatres are virtually a loss leader for the purpose of advertising the feature when it comes out on video. That's where the real money is made from making movies.

Why can't the music industry do a similar thing? Music CDs are a similar kind of loss leader when you think about it? They should stop trying to concentrate on the money lost when they KNOW it's a losing proposition to start with. The REAL money is made in the after market. Why don't they just forget about trying to make money on the first sale of the CDs?

Once they free themselves from that problem then they could move on to putting out "enhanced" versions of the product... DVD Audio, "CD+G", Several different cuts and mixes of the original song or even "Director's Cut" videos that can't be seen on M-TV.

Crikes! You can't swing a dead cat without hitting some kind of marketed movie merchandise! You walk into McDonald's and get slammed in the face with Happy Meal toys from the latest Disney movie that's out! You can't walk down the aisle of a Wal-Mart without tripping over 9,000,000 different Star Wars toys, CDs, books, DVDs and what-have-you!

The music business should take a cue from the movie business. Stop trying to beat a dead horse and find a way to make money without whining about people doing stupid things. What's next? Will people have to PAY just to LISTEN to others play music?

Oh! WAIT a second! They do that NOW! It's called a "concert!"

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-22-2002 01:56 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Garth Brooks has sold over 120 million albums. Not 10 million. I think he's made a couple of dollars.

The new Eminem CD has sold 4 million and is still moving at least 100,000 copies a week. It's not doing as well as his previous steaming pile, but are downloads to blame? Probably partly.

Every generation thinks the next generation's music is crap. The Eminem fans of today will hate whatever comes out 20 years from now (God help us).

There is no doubt in my mind that the kids are downloading music at a frenzied pace. This is because they can have it without paying for it. No label subscription service will EVER work, because people are used to getting it for free now. Why should somebody pay for something "just to be legal" when they can get it free with virtually no risk? Never mind if it's wrong...if you don't get caught, it's okay! I saw a kid with a CD Wallet full of burned CDs once.....I asked him how many store-bought CDs he owned, and he said he does not own any. "I just copy everything from my friends," he said.

No "encryption" will ever work either, not as long as there are analog signals coming out of a line-out jack somewhere.

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Adam Fraser
Master Film Handler

Posts: 499
From: Houghton Lake, MI, USA
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 08-22-2002 01:56 PM      Profile for Adam Fraser   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Fraser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave,
I like your answer about blocking mp3's and other audio files at ISP level. But it has to be taken into account that many people use these types of files for other purposes also. For example, the local television station gets their audio for their commercials from a guy in Texas that emails or maybe even ftp's them to the station. There would have to be a way for the programmers to just stop the piracy and not sharing of certain types of files, like mp3's, in general. I have never really gotten into the debate of music downloading though because the dial-up connection I have would be more than useless to even download a cd full of 3-10 meg songs.

------------------
Adam Fraser
www.pinestheatre.com

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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-22-2002 02:12 PM      Profile for Dave Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Garth Brooks selling 120 Million records? DAMN. Last I heard from him he was bitching about not being able to sell more than 3 million copies per album. Guess he was just bitching. That is the problem, too many artists complaining about losing a couple of dollars. The ones getting the press on that are the ones that are so hurt they couldnt buy that fifth sports car on tuesday, and would have to wait until wednesday.

My point is that the little artist that sells little is the one getting hurt, not the big shots. But all we hear is from the big shots, so the point is lost on people who feel that the millionares of today are getting away with it at thier expense. If we heard from the people getting hosed that are just like you and me, then maybe, maybe it would be different. Maybe.

With the issue of blocking mp3 files, and the such, the reason it has not been done is becuase of the fear of blocking legitimate transfer. All that needs to be done is to apply for a transfer liscence, which would be encoded into the file. All you need is to prove that you own the material. the liscence can even be use coded to allow a single pass or a time limit, or even a destination limit as well, preventing a hijacking of the material and hacking of code. The liscenses could be kept on file with the FTC and updated to all ISP's on an instant basis. It would be technically feasable, and very easy to implement.

I really ought to write this shit down.


Dave

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