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Author Topic: grounds for dissmissal Daniel Boisson Expert Film Handler Posts: 157 From: Buffalo, NY, USA Registered: Oct 2001 posted 12-12-2002 11:02 PM                     I'm just curious about everyone's opinion on this.......Let's say a person that has been running projectors for several months, and has had numerous little mistakes and several brain wraps, but to his defence, he was quickly trained in a short period of time. My question is if this person were to screw up new realease such as LOTR in its opening weekend, would that be grounds for firing this person? This is completely hypethetical, I was just sitting here putting off studying for my final.........  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-12-2002 11:28 PM                       IMHO, I don't think it matters much anymore, let him stay. If the companies cared about presentation, they wouldn't have de-professionalized the craft. If they want to stick someone untrained and unskilled in the booth, that's the theatre's problem. It's certainly not the employee's fault. (Moral: ya gets what ya pays for.) Although, if I couldn't work with him or if he didn't show some improvement after more training, I might consider moving him back downstairs, but that's just me.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-12-2002 11:50 PM                        "Do it once, shame on you. Do it twice, shame on me." In other words, if you make a mistake twice, it's still possible that I'm not training you properly. Everyone makes mistakes, and may repeat them if there is a lack of skill or understanding. But... "Three strikes and you're out." If after proper training, you still don't learn from your mistakes, you're out. Trashing three prints through your own negligence would not be acceptable, and it's time to look for another job. If those "numerous little mistakes" kept happening, and were the reason a big show was lost or a print trashed, there's a square peg in a round hole.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 12-13-2002 12:26 AM                     I think it depends on whether the person tries to do it right, or if the person is a screw-up and could care less about what he/she is doing. If a good person can't handle the booth, then maybe that person should be put in a job that he/she can do well in the establishment. You have to remember there are some people who can screw up a steel ball with a rubber hammer through no fault of their own.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 12-13-2002 06:02 AM                        When training projectionists, I took the line that anyone is allowed to make any mistake once. If a serious mistake (i.e. one which cost a substantial amount in time and or money, e.g. repairs or a lost show) were repeated due to plain simple negligence, I'd consider that grounds for a verbal warning. Of course it's not always easy to determine whether it's a case of plain simple negligence or if other factors are involved. I think if you're training someone to perform a specific task, it's a good idea to ask the trainee if they now feel confident in carrying out that task unsupervised, and to make a note of their answer. If they say yes and subsequently screw it up, then they've got something to answer for. That having been said, I would never have rostered someone inexperienced or who I wasn't confident with to work an important show, e.g. the opening night of a big new film.  |  IP: Logged Barry Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 203 From: Newington, CT USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-13-2002 08:12 AM                        We had the same problem in my theater when I first started training. This was shortly after the theater's opening and there were still some bugs being worked out daily. To catch up on the bugs, management allowed us two projectionists per shift (for a 20-plex). One projectionist would work projectors 1-12 and the other would work 13-20 (easier on all because of the booth setup). There was one guy who would always work the 13-20 side and after all his shifts we would always find damage such as scratched prints, huge amounts of emulsion buildup in the gates, etc. We tried talking to him about it and showing some better techniques, but they ended up telling him he couldn't work the booth any longer and because of that he quit. I think the consensus here is to give someone the benefit of the doubt and account for the "human" part of being a projectionist by letting a mistake go once. If that person shows no interest in learning from that mistake or repeats/makes similar mistakes then I think they should just work "on the floor". Sure it's not as fun or challenging as running a booth, but these days it just about pays the same.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-13-2002 09:48 AM                        Agreed with the majority. If the guy is obviously trying hard, but is making simple mistakes due to poor training, then the problem is with the trainer and with whoever decided to schedule someone without much experience to work on busy nights. On the other hand, if the guy is clearly a goof-off and isn't interested in learning how to do the job right (which is usually indicated by making the same mistake multiple times), then he should be "directed toward other career opportunities" (i.e. fired). Everyone will make occasional mistakes, and as long as they are treated as learning experiences and don't involve significant film or equipment damage, they can be positive experiences. Obviously, the best and most experienced operators (who are less likely to have problems) should be working on the "big" nights, though. A manager who schedules "the new guy" to run widely anticipated films on their opening weekend (when interlocks, etc. are most likely) is just asking for print damage and angry customers.  |  IP: Logged Darren Briggs Master Film Handler Posts: 371 From: York, UK Registered: Dec 2001 posted 12-13-2002 12:07 PM                        Leo This all reminds me of the John situation I had a few months back. Anything that he did wrong was someone elses fault. wouldnt take advice, didnt turn up for a shift , I asked him to leave the next day. Darren  |  IP: Logged Thomas Procyk Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1842 From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-13-2002 12:22 PM                     Add to the "grounds for dismissal" not admitting to the mistakes you have made. If someone keeps scratching prints or causing brainwraps, yet the claim "it wasn't me" when it clearly was, they should be fired for lying. We had a situation like that with one of our booth employees. He would ALWAYS manage to emulsion scratch a print on his shift. We got to the point where none of our prints were scratched in the entire theater. He works a shift, a print gets scratched. "It wasn't me man! That was like that when I came in! Don't try and blame me for that crap!!" Since I was the one that worked the shift before him (unbeknownst to him) not only did he lie to my face, but accused ME of doing the damage he did!! Then there are those people who don't write down problems in the booth log in fear of getting in trouble for them. We had a tech come in to fix a platter deck that was continuously throwing prints. The platter deck still wasn't fixed at that point, (no one wrote in the log if it was or wasn't) and someone ran a print which was thrown, and they didn't log it. Next shift, assuming the platter was fixed, another print was run, and thrown as well. THOSE are the people who should be fired. Not willing to admit to mistakes, and in turn not willing to learn how to prevent them. =TMP=  |  IP: Logged Dennis Benjamin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1445 From: Denton, MD Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-13-2002 01:30 PM                        I have actually seen film companies ask for theatre management's resignation due to film problems. I remember an incident with the film "Death Becomes Her" in which Universal called for an assistant manager's resignation when a major brain wrap occured opening day. There was a lot involved with the scenario - but it boiled down to a brain wrap, show canceled, a bunch of refunds, and an assistant manager out of a job. End of Story. Harsh stuff......  |  IP: Logged Michael Gonzalez Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 790 From: Grand Island , NE USA Registered: Sep 2000 posted 12-13-2002 02:30 PM                     I know that I am going to take some heat for this response but unless there is a equipment problem, there is really NO excuse for damaging a print. This isn't rocket science. You can pretty much teach anyone the mechanics of threading and starting a movie. If you do the same thing, the same way, each and every time there should be zero print damage (once again assuming no mechanical problems, broken rollers etc.). I understand that everyone makes a mistake now and then but basically if you have someone in the booth who is constantly makes threading errors, than they not only do not have any business being in the booth, but I wouldn't want somebody like that working for me period. Now to take a little bit of the heat off, there is a lot more to running a booth than threading and starting movies. That should only be about 10% of the work and it should be the easiest part of the job. If someone can't handle that, then they shouldn't be up there.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 12-14-2002 06:06 PM                        Human beings make mistakes: that's how God designed us. That's why in an aircraft that carries paying passengers, international law says that you have to have two qualified pilots on board, one double-checking what the other is doing. In operating theatres you have to have at least two qualified surgeons present whenever a patient gets cut up. In other words, really safety-critical procedures are done by two professionals, one of whose job is to catch any mistakes made by the other. It's the best system we have for reducing the risks of human fallibility to rock bottom. Projecting films is not a safety-critical application, which is why most cinemas don't have two projectionists on duty at all times. The costs of doing this are far greater than the cost of accidently trashing a print every 2-3 years. My point is that even a well trained and experienced projectionst is capable of making a mistake, and should not be lynched for so doing. Lacing up a projector may not be rocket science, but in a multiplex environment it is a monotonous, repetitive task, but one in which even a minor, momentary error can scratch a print. So the trick is to identify those who are fundamentally unable and unwilling to do the job properly, and get them out, but not to lynch someone who makes the occasional human error. It's not always easy to distinguish between the two situations, but I'd be inclined to give the benefit of the doubt until I'm convinced that I'm dealing with a problem person.  |  IP: Logged Gerard S. Cohen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 975 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 12-14-2002 06:56 PM                     quote: In other words, really safety-critical procedures are done by two professionals, one of whose job is to catch any mistakes made by the other. It's the best system we have for reducing the risks of human fallibility to rock bottom. Actually, in very large theatres in New York City at least, during nitrate/carbon arc/changeover days, a two man crew was normal, sometimes with a third operator, the foreman, present. I'm told this was standard practice at the Radio City Music Hall. The public safety WAS a critical factor, plus the importance of the presentation with very large audiences. Since there was usually a stage show as well, lighting and stage crews added many additional technical people. Sometimes in a booth I'd come across old IATSE projectionist yearbooks in which full-page advertisements were placed by the technical staffs of Broadway and Times Square theatres, with group photos of six to eight projectionists, since there were often two (sometimes three) shifts per day, and crews worked alternate days, for a total of four crews. I've been told that at the RCMH it was not uncommon to run two prints simultaneously, so that in case of a film break or other mishap,the safety projector would take over without missing a beat.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 12-15-2002 11:05 AM                        I believe that the backup projector is still used for big premieres in the West End of London. Sure, in the days of nitrate and 2,000 seat auditoria, you needed a much larger number of technicians on duty at any one time. If you increased staff levels in today's multiplex environment that would probably cut 'film done wrong' errors down to a bare minimum, just as having two pilots in every passenger aircraft reduces the number of accidents caused by pilot error to virtually zero. But in the real world, economies of scale prevents this from being viable.  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 12-15-2002 11:23 AM                     In Los Angeles during the real days of projection. As per Local 150's contract, in houses seating over 1000 people. You had to have 2 projectionists per show. To get around that contract item. Theatre chains with large neighborhood or under performing houses that seated very close to 1000. They took a few seats out to make 999 or less houses. So they could cut that one extra job and maybe another job also for the extra other projectionist at the site. But the big Hollywood and Beverly Hills and Downtown Los Angeles house stayed two men booths.  |  IP: Logged

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