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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » "LOTR-THE TWO TOWERS" free movie pass expires today-12/31/02

Author Topic: "LOTR-THE TWO TOWERS" free movie pass expires today-12/31/02 Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 12-31-2002 03:54 PM                        Beside a fantastic presentation on DVD in the deluxe "THE LORD OF THE RINGS" release, a free theatre pass was enclosed for the current episode. Because it expires today, I made a special effort to see "THE TWO TOWERS" at the first show yesterday at the Ward 16 in one of the four large theatres that have 60 foot screens and a XL class HPS 400 sound system, the same sound system that the Waikiki Twin had. None of the Ward theatres have Dolby EX processors because the HPS sound decodes the rear tracks beautifully. Up until yesterday, I have been seeing film with EX tracks at the Waikiki Twins because they had EX. Now that the Waikiki's are gone, I tried the Ward and I must admit, I was very impressed at the way the HPS system reproduced the rear surround tracks which in my opinion was awesome. The sound was reproduced from the SDDS track and was fantastic. Although the sound was awesome, I was not very pleased with the picture quality. There was nothing wrong with the way the film was projected but in my opinion, the print I saw had very muted color that was on the cold (Blue) side and not vibrant as the first episode when I saw it at the Waikiki last year and on DVD. I do not know if the print I saw was not a good print or that is the way it looks on all of the prints. However, "THE TWO TOWERS" is a GREAT film and I cannot wait for the DVD. As I had mentioned earlier, the free movie pass that came with the DVD expires today and if you had not used it yet, you might have lost out on a opportunity to see this wonderful film for free. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 12-31-2002 04:45 PM                        12/31/03, isn't that about a year from now You can change that by editing the subject title in your first post.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 12-31-2002 04:52 PM                        Thanks, Daryl -Claude  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 12-31-2002 10:46 PM                        I was planning to see Two Towers today, but I'd forgotten about that DVD freebie. Thanks to you Claude, I saw it for free this evening.  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 12-31-2002 11:00 PM                     quote: None of the Ward theatres have Dolby EX processors because the HPS sound decodes the rear tracks beautifully. So this urban myth is still circulating? LOL!  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 12-31-2002 11:29 PM                        Paul, Have you ever seen a film with an well recorded EX soundtrack in a theatre with a XL class HPS 4000 sound system? If you have not, please do not call it a myth until you do. Your remark gave me the impression that you felt I was lying when I said HPS 4000 sound does a good job in decoding the rear surround track from a EX sountrack and I resent that very much! I have heard it and I was very impressed and as far as I am concerned, that is good enough! Although I know John Allen at the MSP forum and have had the pleasure personally meeting him at several theatre openings here in Hawaii, this was not not the reason for my favorable comments about his sound system. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 12-31-2002 11:39 PM                     Claude, I certainly didn't mean to infer you were lying, just that you are technically incorrect. Speakers CANNOT decode all on their own EX sound. If somehow they do indeed give the illusion of sound coming from the rears with nothing from the sides, then why use side surround speakers back in the days of mono surrounds? I have heard all the arguments about the accoustical balancing act between screen channels and surrounds to "create" this rear channel effect, but speakers have no "brain" or processing circuit to know what the intention of the sound mixers is.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 01-01-2003 12:12 AM                        Paul, I am sorry for being hard on you with my reply. Yes, I do know that speakers by themselves cannot decode the rear tracks. The only way I think they can play back the rear sound track is for the speakers to be properly placed and balanced. I was told that the regular HPS 4000 sound system can do it but I have not had the opportunity to hear an EX sound track on such a system. The EX play back I heard yesterday was on the XL class system. I also found it hard to believe when I heard for the first time that the HPS sound system can do it without an actual SRD EX processor but when I heard how active the rear tracks were in "THE TWO TOWERS" without actual EX decoding by a processor, I now believe it can be done. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-01-2003 12:41 AM                     In the simplest terms, go to your home stereo and put on a 2 channel stereo movie (VHS, Laserdisc or non 5.1 DVD). Now set your receiver/pro-logic decoder to NOT decode "pro-logic", but to send the LEFT signal straight through to the left channel and the RIGHT speaker straight to the right channel. Surrounds and sub can be derived as always. Now listen. Notice how the dialogue still appears to come from the center speaker, even though it is not reproducing anything? That is nothing more than a "phantom center" channel, whereas anything that is hard mono between the two stereo channels will be reproduced equally by each LEFT and RIGHT speakers, thus giving the illusion of center channel decoding. The EX system is doing exactly the same thing with the left surround and right surround channels to derive the rear surround channel as your home system is to derive that center screen channel from the left and right. HOWEVER, notice how the dialogue isn't quite discrete? If you dare sit off of centerline too far or the levels are not matched or the speakers are not properly angled, the effect is lost. In the simplest explanation I can provide...what Pro-logic does is to take everything that is "mono" between the two channels and send them exclusively to the center channel. Then everything that is ONLY on the left channel is routed to the left speaker. Then everything that is ONLY in the right channel is routed to the right speaker. What this is doing is helping to "steer" the sound with a greater degree of discreteness than can be obtained via acoustical placement of the speakers. This allows the listeners to sit off axis and still enjoy sound placement as the mixers intended, because even though one listener may be closer to the left screen speaker, the dialogue STILL comes out of the center speaker with the Pro-logic decoding. EX is not an entirely obvious effect, as we humans have a somewhat difficult time pinpointing precise sound positioning that is behind our heads. What HPS4000 is doing is placing the surround speakers carefully enough to enjoy that "phantom EX" effect, and for the most part it probably works pretty well. (I've never heard an HPS system running an EX movie, but I have heard "EX type of effects" years before EX was ever introduced from good systems via the "phantom EX" effect). However I see no possible way that the HPS4000 system can effectively duplicate the discreteness of the three intended surround channels like true electronic matrixing can achieve. "Discreteness" is really the key word here. This is because when an airplane flies overhead, the HPS4000 (and all non-EX sound systems) are sending the audio of the airplane to the left surround and the right surround equally and that's that. Now if the sound was mixed well, this can work pretty good. However when you run those two channels through a matrix decoder (an EX box), suddenly the airplane flying overhead starts out of phase in the left and right surround channels at an equal level, then is blended into an in phase hard mono signal (probably with some degree of echo to achieve the appearance of "distance") and then ends up being reproduced exclusively and discretely from the rear surround speakers. So even with this one simple example it is easy to see how an "acoustical EX" system like the HPS4000 can never technically be as effective as a real processed EX playback. I know John Allen has claimed to have listened to his systems with an EX box on and off and says there is no difference, but I attribute that mostly to the fact that most EX mixes aren't all that discretely mixed to begin with. This is one area in which I disagree that "acoustical EX decoding" cannot possibly match "electronic EX decoding". But if it sounds good and everyone is happy, who cares?  |  IP: Logged

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