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Author Topic: Washington State Legislators are Digging Themselves Into A Hole Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 01-14-2003 07:12 PM                     Hmmmm…. I guess The Great State of Washington (The Ever-stump State) is basically broke. No Money. According to an industry publication I have just scanned over, Washington State is faced with about a $3 Billon budget overrun. The legislature just convened, and this is what they are looking at: 1. Expand Gambling. The WRA (Washington Restaurant Association) is supporting new electronic machines as one revenue option for the state. Fully implemented, it would provide $500 million for state and local governments. 2. Sales Tax Increase: Every 0.1 percent added to the sales tax brings in about $200 million. 3. B&O Tax Increase: A 5 percent increase would raise about $200 million. 4. Value Added Tax: A new proposal that would tax the “value” added to a product by a business. One method would be a tax on all sales with a deduction allowed for all purchases. 5. Personal Income Tax: Rejected many times in the past, a 1 percent income tax would net about S1.4 billion. 6. Alcohol Taxes: The Governor’s Council on substance abuse is pushing to increase beer taxes from $8.08 a barrel to a whopping $31.74 – a 393 percent increase. 7. Sales Tax on Services: There are many services which are exempt from sales tax. A tax on business services would generate about $2 billion. 8. L & I Increase 29%: The Department of Labor and Industries has backed off its proposal to raise industrial insurance tax rates by 40.5 percent. Instead, L & I has implemented an increase of 29 percent. The only thing that will “probably” fly would be No. 1. Anything else would probably result in small business going bust; higher unemployment, and less buying would cause fewer taxes to be collected. What do you guys think? I personally think many of our elected officials will be out of a job the next time around.  |  IP: Logged Robert Golding Film Handler Posts: 65 From: Sutter, CA, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 01-14-2003 07:22 PM                     Paul, come on down to California. Our govenor and his thugs are like a bad case of cancer. Seems we are somewhere around 35 BILLION in debt. We need to get rid of this growth without killing the host (all of us living here). If he has his way we are basically SCEWED. If I could, I'd move my drive in to some other state. I sure hope he's not able to run for president in the future. Believe me it would be a mistake for this country.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 01-14-2003 07:26 PM                    An income tax properly structured would be the least regressive option. A sales tax increase or a VAT impacts people of lesser means more than the wealthy because they must spend a greater portion (often all) of their income. On the other hand an income tax can be designed as a progressive tax where the well heeled pay at a higher percentage. That's one of the arguments against a flat national income tax. It gets touted as tax simplification (the legendary tax return that fits on a post card) but that's really just a sneaky way to take away the progressive tax rate system we have. You could still have a simplified tax system and a progressive tax rate by retaining a lookup table that encompasses it. Instead of take your income; multiply by whatever; here is your tax, it would be take your income and look up the tax amount in a table. Not any more complex but it retains the idea that the rich can afford to pay a greater percentage.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-14-2003 07:46 PM                     Personally, I oppose the income tax...it (and the 16th amendment) was brought about in time of World War...this country existed for over half its life without a Federal income tax and many states do not have one. It is about the most horrible tax a government can employ. It quite literally penalizes the worker. I also dispise the graduated income tax. I have less problem with property tax...if you own property, you probably want it protected and might have kids that go to school...etc. There is a case where those that are more able to pay will pay the most. Perhaps, government should learn that one of their options for saving money, isn't taxing more, it is spending less...that is less service from the government. As a business what it does when it can't afford something (or a responsible citizan)...you learn to do without and prioritize what you feel you need. Government is one of the most inefficient entities for moving money, why have them do it? Government is often, though not always, bad for the enconomy. Governments are there for the military, police, fire, utiltites...etc..things that are essential to a peaceful civil society and can't be trusted to greedy profit-driven pivate industry. The governments often suck at trying to make things utopias but they are quite expensive at trying. Another thing a state can do to improve its economy...encourage industry to MAKE THINGS. Creation of products create wealth...it also will bring pollution but a balance has to be struck with that. Environmentally friendly everything sounds good on TV and in print but the reality is that it is horrible for an economy. A balance needs to be struck. If we choose to impose environmental restrictions on ourselves for the betterment of our society, don't give an economic advantage to others to take our industry. That is, those nations that don't choose to maintain the levels of environmental standards should be tarriffed such that they don't benefit by polluting our planet. It isn't protectionism, it is sanity. As an example, at the Olympics, does the US put hurdles up on our lanes only and compete with those countries that choose to run the race without hurdles? No, any comparision between the competitors would be silly. So, you people in WA...think about what you don't need the government to provide for you. Consider the gambling machines. And encourage industry...your economy and the country's will be booming in no time. Steve  |  IP: Logged Ray Brown Expert Film Handler Posts: 111 From: Dayton, WA, USA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 01-14-2003 07:51 PM                        I'm curious if Governor Locke will get elected to another term. He was sure shocked when the gas tax initiative went down in flames last year. I wonder what Tim Eyman has up his sleeve for this election? Edit: Tim Eyman is the guy who started the tax revolt in Washington.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-14-2003 07:56 PM                        It's disturbing that none of the listed options actually addresses the real issue: that the government is spending too much. When most of us find ourselves in that position, the appropriate reaction is to SPEND LESS. Governments should be expected to function in a similar manner.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 01-14-2003 08:07 PM                    Unfortunately there are simply too many things we need which are clearly the purview of government: The military, schools, road building, prisons, and yes, social security and welfare too. Some of you are going to take the attitude that you can invest for retirement better yourself. The problem with that is that many people simply won't do it or will make speculative investments and lose it all. I don't think any of us want a country with people starving on the street corners like the worst days of Calcutta. Look how many homeless there are already (many of them mentally ill). Can you imagine if there were no safety nets? Unfortunately this all takes money and even if government were perfectly efficient and free of pork barrel and graft the tax burden would not go down all that much. So pay or start cutting. Which service do you no longer want?  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 01-14-2003 08:25 PM                     Steve K: You have to live in this state to actually see what is going on. No wonder Boeing moved their headquarters to Chicago! As time goes on, you'll probably see more of this happening. Tonight on the way home, I saw a bunch of school teachers standing on the corner of main intersections with signs saying "Save Our Schools." Governor Lock wants to fiddle around in them, too. Pay is the issue on that one, as far as I determine. I have not been following that area to close because I have not brats in school. Ray, I don't think The Gov will have the balls to run again. If he thought we were idiots to go along with a 9-cent per gallon tax increase, he was nuts! Scott, you are absolutely correct. Washington State has the philosophy of "TAX AND SPEND." Robert, that comes out to $1033.31 for every man, woman, and child in the State of California. That is about twice as much as ours.... which is $508.98 for ours. This is based on Year 2000 population counts.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-14-2003 08:39 PM                     Paul, My sister and Dad live in Poulsbo and they say the same things you are saying.......Humpty Dumpty is about to fall off the wall and they won't be able to put him back to gether again! Mark  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-14-2003 08:41 PM                        Gallagher, the comedian, said it best: "I don't think we should pay any of the politicians until the country shows a profit!"  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 01-14-2003 08:45 PM                        Oregon is the same. The economy is in the crapper, so tax revenues are down for state & local governments. They're saying that state troopers and other such services will be cut. We're voting on an emergency increase in the income tax, from 9% to 9.5% I think, but it's expected to go down in flames. Here in Eugene the streets are falling apart and they have like $100M backlog in unfunded road repairs, so the city is implementing a street repair tax! They want EWEB (Eugene Water & Electric Board) to collect the tax but EWEB is saying "NO WAY! We get yelled at enough for high utility bills." Gov. Kitzhaber just left office after 8 years, and his timing is perfect -- let the new guy Ted Kulangoski (sp?) inherit the big mess.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 01-14-2003 09:30 PM                    Wow...9.5%. Illinois' is at 3% of AGI. The late Governor Ogilvie, a Republican, initiated it (at 2.5%) in 1969 to save the state from bankruptcy and he paid for it at the next election (He lost. Later he was trustee for the bankrupt Milwaukee Road RR.) I found this online and thought it instructive: quote: Illinois is one of only six states that has a flat individual income tax rate. Thirty-three states have graduated rates, two states tax only dividends and nterest income, and two states have rates as a percentage of federal income tax liability. Seven states levy no income tax. Looks like you're in the minority if you have no state income tax. (No that doesn't make it right but perhaps inevitable.)  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 01-14-2003 09:34 PM                        quote: from Robert Golding: Our govenor and his thugs are like a bad case of cancer Didn't he just get re-elected?  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 01-14-2003 09:47 PM                        quote: from Ray Brown: I'm curious if Governor Locke will get elected to another term. He was sure shocked when the gas tax initiative went down in flames last year. The thing that bothered me the most about that whole thing was he didn't seem to have a backup plan... even knowing what an uphill battle that gas tax was. Everyone seemed so shocked... yah. Seems to me that this whole problem with what we give the state to spend will probably balance out in time. People probably need to feel empowered to a point, and the Eyman initiatives make them feel they're getting the State's attention. Eventually, the effect of these laws will sink in, and the voters will find a way to loosen the purse strings a bit. What really gets me (and says a lot about our state politicos) is how our elected officials go to court to contest these initiatives every time one of them get passed.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-14-2003 09:49 PM                     I have no problem with taxes on the sale of gasoline...IF IT GOES TO THE ROADS. If you are buying gas...it is pretty safe to presume, you are using the roads. I do have a problem with a gas tax that goes to deficet reduction. I don't agree with you Mr. K on the Social Security...it is a very flawed system. Most businesses have long ago learned the silliness of today's workers paying for yesterday's workers. Having a safety net like SS encourages financial irresponsibility. While taxes are a necessity for a civilized society (anarchy does not work), income taxes are wholey unecessary for an efficient government. Steve  |  IP: Logged

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