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Author Topic: George Lucas' TV Camera is Now Obsolete Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 01-29-2003 12:25 AM                        Check out this new camera designed for moviemakers. Better than HD. Who woulda thunk that cinema could ever be better than HD? Clicky Here With a resolution of 4000 x 2000 and a 35mm image sensor, I'd definitely like to see the results of this. But part of me wants to wait and see what they develop next week that makes THIS obsolete. Filmmakers (moviemakers, actually) should wait for the 65mm image sensors.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 01-29-2003 09:47 AM                        Ho-Hum: Kodak 16-Megapixel Sensor Kodak 11-Megapixel CCD Sensor paper Kodak Sensor Applications Kodak Sensor R&D  |  IP: Logged Adam Martin I'm not even gonna point out the irony. Posts: 3686 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 01-29-2003 09:56 AM                     DALSA claims that their camera is for filmmakers and NOT broadcasters ... but I'm sure that they'll have at least one on display at the upcoming NAB convention (National Association of Broadcasters). I would really like to see that 4000x2000 resolution coming back out of a DLP projector.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 01-29-2003 10:53 AM                        Hey John, I offer YOU this reply: Ho hum. The Kodak sensor is definitely better, but no cameras use it yet!  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 01-29-2003 11:09 AM                        Joe Redifer wrote: "The Kodak sensor is definitely better, but no cameras use it yet!" Lots of cameras use Kodak digital sensors. The Kodak 16-megapixel camera backs have been on the market for over two years. Kodak 22-megapixel sensor technology is already being commercialized: http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/corp/pressReleases/pr20020924-24.shtml The DALSA site says "Coming Soon" -- so we'll see if it's real or "vaporware" at NAB.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 01-29-2003 11:50 AM                        Motion cameras? I'm not talking still cameras.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 01-29-2003 12:33 PM                       Waiting with great anticipation. (heh-heh)  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 01-29-2003 05:57 PM                     Ultimately, higher rez video cameras will produce moving images far greater than the capacity of HD broadcast to deliver. One might ask, "why bother and not just settle for 1920 X 1080?" Why? Computer based video, for one thing. Viewsonic and a couple other manufacturers have 23" monitors displaying the new 3840 X 2400 pixel standard. Resolution specs will probably go way higher than that. Graphics card makers are doubling and quadrupling the performance of their adapters every year, which would lead to demand for high rez motion video for gaming and other forms of entertainment. New advancements like OLED displays may make for giant, wall sized TV screens one can simply roll up out of the way. If the telcos can get out of their financial slump they might propel forward new, much higher bandwidth network connections. Overall, I think over-the-air broadcast is ultimately doomed. Newer video storage, playback and transmission formats will see to that. But you need very high rez video cameras to capture the footage (unless of course you simply want to get as good/better of a result by using film).  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 01-29-2003 09:25 PM                        For motion cameras, the best choice are those Kodak 12-megapixel sensors attached to 35mm rolls of clear durable plastic. We also sell them in higher resolution 65mm size, and more compact 16mm size.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Haney Master Film Handler Posts: 265 From: Cupertino, CA, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 01-30-2003 03:59 AM                     Sounds interesting, but I don't see anything on the site about how they handle the I/O requirements. That image sensor, if it really is outputting the kind of data they claim, is going to need some very high speed, high capacity storage. What does their camera record to? Tape? A hard drive array? Is the output compressed? If so, in what format?  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 01-30-2003 09:21 AM                        Aaron Haney wrote: "Sounds interesting, but I don't see anything on the site about how they handle the I/O requirements" Correct. The devil is in the details. Digital cinematography requires a SYSTEM, not just a chip or just a camera. And any practical recorder today will involve quantization and compression, with their associated artifacts.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 01-30-2003 10:06 AM                        Bobby Henderson wrote: "New advancements like OLED displays may make for giant, wall sized TV screens one can simply roll up out of the way." Kodak has led the way in developing OLED technology: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/display/index.jhtml http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/display/kodakAndOEL.jhtml http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/display/overview.jhtml  |  IP: Logged Mark Ogden Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 943 From: Little Falls, N.J. Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-30-2003 11:47 AM                     -------------------- any practical recorder today will involve quantization and compression, with their associated artifacts. -------------------- Not quite. Many of these new cameras involve transfer of non gamma corrected RGB data direct to hard disk recorders with dual HD-SDI links, at rates of 2.978 Gb/s. (the theory being that the gamma elements will be reconstructed by post production colorists). This allows 1920/1080 to be recorded with absolutly no compression or quantization whatsoever. One of these cameras, the 9 megapixel native 2:35 CCD Thomson Viper, has been on the market for over a year. http://www.thomsongrassvalley.com/products/cameras/viper/ The most interesting camera that is currently in the rumor stage isn't the Dalsa, but a joint effort planned by Ikegami and Arriflex. They are said to be bringing out a HD back for the Arri 35mm camera, that is, instead of loading a film magazine on the back, you'll be able to snap on an HD optic block with a megapixel imaging system and asscoiated processing.  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 01-30-2003 12:24 PM                     The HD back for the Arriflex 16SR is reportably to be shown at NAB Richard Fowler Kinoton America  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 01-30-2003 12:40 PM                        Mark Ogden wrote: "One of these cameras, the 9 megapixel native 2:35 CCD Thomson Viper, has been on the market for over a year." What movies or HD television shows have been shot with that new camera during the last year? (AFAIK, the camera was introduced at NAB in April 2002.) I did say "any PRACTICAL recorder today will involve quantization and compression, with their associated artifacts."  |  IP: Logged

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