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Author Topic: Early non CinemaScope stereo films Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 02-25-2003 03:44 PM                        Just about the time 20th Century Fox released "THE ROBE in CinemaScope and four track mag in 1953, there were also other non widescreen films released in multi channel sound that year including "HOUSE OF WAX" in dual projection 3-D and "FROM HERE TO ETERNITY". Before "THE ROBE" opened, I do not believe any theatre in Hawaii was set up for stereo playback and that is the reason I have never had the pleasure of seeing the movie with stereo sound before "THE ROBE". Here is a question I have for anyone who have seen or handled "H.O.W." and "F.H.T.E." with stereo sound. Was the stereo system the same as Fox's scope films or was it different? While "WAX" was a Warner Brothers picture, "F.H.T.E." was released by Columbia. Some of the other non scope pictures Columbia released in stereo was "THE CAINE MUTINY" and "THE JAZZ SINGER" with Larry Parks. Yes, I know the "JAZZ SINGER" was a stereo remix from mono but "CAIN" and the others were true stereo. "FROM HERE TO ETERNITY" will be released again on DVD next Tuesday as part of their Superbit series and this time it will have a Dolby and DTS 5.1 stereo soundtrack. From a review I read, the mix is very stunning. I dont know if they went to the original multi track source but I was told that a lot of the sound was newly recorded for the DVD like they did for "BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI" with fantastic 5.1 digital sound. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-25-2003 04:47 PM                     House of Wax I have delt with Projector 1 has a mono optical mix on it Projector Two had effects track (surrounds now days) A full coat Altec dubber with a 3track head had the 3 screen channels  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 02-25-2003 05:24 PM                     The HOUSE OF WAX system that Gordon alludes to was called Warnerphonic Sound and was also used on other WB 3-D films. Basically, the system used on FROM HERE TO ETERNITY, THE CAINE MUTINY, and many others before THE ROBE in 1953, used the 3-track full coat 35mm format playback system, sans the optical track used for surround speakers of Warnerphonic Sound. (a good placeto read about this is in the Widescreen Museum). This was usually accompanied by the films being projected in various aspect ratios wider than 1.33, though (BLOWN UP AND CROPPED by the theatre. WB also experimented with 3-track stereo (optical based from seperate 35mm film) back in the early 40's. This system was similiar to what Disney used for FANTASIA in 1940, without the surrounds.  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 02-25-2003 05:39 PM                     Claude The Larry Parks movie was "The Jolson Story". It was later released in the 70's in 70MM. Remember the first stereo movie was "Fantasia". Sound was recorded on three tracks for the screen and a fourth control track containing a control tones. That control tone which could increase the loudness of the other three track by up to 20db each. In the theatre the four tracks ran on a separate piece of film that was interlocked with the picture. The picture had a standard mono track as emergency back-up. Fantasia opened at the Broadway Theatre (the same theatre that Cinerama opened in New York) The Fantasound system cost $85,000 for that engagement. By 1942 the film was in mono only format, it would not be heard in stereo until 1956 reissue in a four-track magnetic format.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 02-25-2003 06:01 PM                        Bill, When I think about Al Jolson, I always relate him to "THE JAZZ SINGER". You are right, the movie was the "AL JOLSON STORY". I have the movie on an old Columbia laserdisc as well as the sequel. Both of the movies are very entertaining and the original movie features the stereo remix from mono and it is not too bad. I also have the original "THE JAZZ SINGER" with the real Al Jolson along with several other films he had made in a MGM laserdisc box set. The original Vitaphone sound although very 'ancient' is not bad. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Michael Coate Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1904 From: Los Angeles, California Registered: Feb 2001 posted 02-25-2003 06:50 PM                     quote: Was the stereo system the same as Fox's scope films or was it different? The 1952/53 pre-CinemaScope and 53/54 non-scope stereo films were generally shown "double system" rather than sound-on-film. quote: The Larry Parks movie was "The Jolson Story". It was later released in the 70's in 70MM. The Carr & Hayes book Wide Screen Movies lists it as a 1968 U.S. re-issue. My research indicates this had its 70mm re-issue in Europe in 1969 and the USA in 1975.  |  IP: Logged Jeffry L. Johnson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 809 From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 02-26-2003 11:17 AM                        The "American Film Institute Catalog, Feature Films, 1941-1950" notes The Jolson Story: "was rereleased in 1954 in widescreen format with stereophonic sound. On 14 Aug 1969, a re-issued version of the film in 70mm format began a roadshow engagement in London. The 70mm re-issue had its American premiere in Aug 1975."  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 02-28-2003 06:33 AM                        The British engineer Alan Blumlein is generally believed to have demonstrated the first working stereo variable area soundtrack, in the mid-1930s. Two of his films survive in the National Film and Television Archive. The first shows a horse-drawn fire engine travelling across a field, and the bell can be heard panning from left to right. The second shows a train running through a station - you get the idea!  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 02-28-2003 12:18 PM                        Ah, the first (Dolby) train trailer. I wonder if it made the kiddies cry.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 02-28-2003 12:27 PM                        The first Dolby Digital house in Eugene was at the now-closed Moyer West 11th Movieland 6. That THX house was Scott Hicks' baby (Scott now runs American Cinema Equipment). I don't remember what their first digital feature was, but I sure as hell remember the Dolby Digital Train!! Oh yeah, baby, that was the all-time best sound snipe.  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 03-07-2003 06:56 PM                     Speaking of non-CinemaScope stereo films, does anyone know what the first official "CinemaScope" branded film was released in mono only?  |  IP: Logged Michael Coate Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1904 From: Los Angeles, California Registered: Feb 2001 posted 03-07-2003 07:19 PM                     quote: does anyone know what the first official "CinemaScope" branded film was released in mono only? Not sure. It was likely something among the following: At Gunpoint Bengazi The Black Shield Of Falworth Captain Lightfoot Chief Crazy Horse Long John Silver (aka Return To Treasure Island)* Sign Of The Pagan Sitting Bull Vera Cruz *not positive it was a scope production; sources conflict, and I've never seen it myself  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 03-07-2003 07:37 PM                     quote: Vera Cruz wasn't that a SuperScope film? aspect ratio was transfered at 1.66  |  IP: Logged Michael Coate Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1904 From: Los Angeles, California Registered: Feb 2001 posted 03-07-2003 09:09 PM                     quote: wasn't that a SuperScope film? Shot in Superscope...but weren't Superscope productions released in "CinemaScope" with black mattes printed into the frame edges? I suppose it was a technicality for me to include it on that list of possible first-mono scope releases. quote: aspect ratio was transfered at 1.66 Transferred where??? A 35mm print? A DVD? The ratio for Superscope was 2.00:1.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-07-2003 11:06 PM                        Beside "VERA CRUZ", some other SuperScope features were the original "INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS" and "UNDERWATER" starring the luscious Jane Russell with Richard Eagan & Gilbert Roland. I saw all of these SuperScope films at the Waipahu on a scope screen that was nice and wide. As I recall, the picture did not fill the unmatted screen. -Claude  |  IP: Logged

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