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Topic: Cinema Treasures web site

William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-28-2003 06:51 AM

So what is the deal with this Cinema Treasures web site?

http://cinematreasures.org/

Tons of misinformation, some "Bryan Krefft" guy who closely paraphrases from online sites, except when he adds erroneous stuff that seem to be the product of Just Guessing.

There are some other THSA folks who have also wondered what the hell the Cinema Treasures people are. Corrections are sent in, no changes made, listings just pulled, etc. It just seems to be a web site on crack. Are they just pimping for a coffee table book that will be coming out?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 11-28-2003 08:40 AM

That's just a play site. The real site is www.cinematour.com [Razz]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-28-2003 09:52 AM

Actually Brad I totally disagree.... Both sites have their good and bad merits. I have and will from time to time continue to contribute to both sites as time permits. Both sites in reality have about the same number of world wide listings.

"Cinema Treasures" was around along time...perhaps three years or more before "Cinema Tours" was ever thought of. It works pretty much the same way.... people that want to send in their reports of cinemas do so and they are posted. "Cinema Treasures" posts valid news where "Cinema Tours" does not and so on......
On "Cinema Treasures" I can also say that most of the postings at least of theatres I have serviced or do service in 10 states are correct. Where on "Cinema Tours" All I had to do was pull up the Utah listings and I found several errors. One theatre in Southern Utah that was listed as closed has actually never been closed and is even listed by the wrong name. I drove past it yesterday on my way back from Page, AZ. Another that is listed as open is actually closed and for sale. I'm sure you'd find the same mis-information like these on any site of its type.

Basically, these sites are only as good as the information that is sent in for posting. Its impossible to confirm everything there. So whats the big beef? Both are great contributions to the history of Cinema and cinema architecture. At least if any given town has a cinema it is probably listed at both sites for record. Beyond that you would have to confirm anything else for yourself.

Mark @ CLACO

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 11-28-2003 11:18 AM

I started the CinemaTour project in 1995 and registered the domain in 1999. The CinemaTour Forums were started in February 2003 (a month after the site was moved to a Film-Tech server) where members can interact with each other and post and comment on news stories about cinemas. (Note to self: Update the About Cinematour page sometime soon.)

Cinema Treasures went online in December 2000.

Mark is exactly right. Sites that depend heavily on user participation are only as good as what is shared. It's almost hilarious the amount of mis-information that's out there being thrown around by well-intentioned people who think they know stuff.

Example: I recently received an email from someone claiming to be in charge of marketing for a very small chain in Texas. It stated that such-and-such theater is *not* closed and "I'll send you photos". My reply was "I was just in Texas last week and took the attached photos of the theater. As you can see, it is very much closed. I'd still love to add your photos of the theater when it was open!" I haven't heard back. [Frown]

That's the main reason why I'm the only one who edits the CinemaTour database right now. It may take me some time to get it done, but I do sincerely try to get it done. [Smile]

I was supposed to go to Salt Lake City to do research back in July, but the trip was cancelled at the last minute (See the "Life on the Road with CinemaTour" thread in the CT Forums). Yes, I actually hit the road and do research for the site. Travel expenses come directly out of my pocket except for the little bit of help that I receive from minimal fundraising efforts. It's my hobby (insanity) after all. I took about 9,000 photos this year.

So if you're bored this weekend, please have a look at the listings in your favorite part of the world and let me know if there are any corrections or changes that need to be made. Things can get updated quicker if you include the database numbers of the cinemas in question, that way I don't have to spend time looking them up as I read your emails.

There are a number of Film-Tech members who regularly help out with CinemaTour by sending in information and photos, and I appreciate their help more than they will probably ever know. [Big Grin]

Something that I'd really like to see happen would be for members of other organizations (like THSA and ATOS) to join up and participate on the CT forums. So if you're involved with a cinema history or theatre organ society (there's a new forum dedicated to theatre organs) of some sort, spread the word. The more participation on the site, the better it gets!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 11-28-2003 12:02 PM

Mark, do you have graphics turned off in your browser? Did you not notice the [Razz]

icon? It's a joke buddy.

I remember Cinematour before it became Cinematour, back when it was VMovies or Vision Project or something like that (it's been too long ago).

As Adam pays for Cinematour out of his pocket much like I do, we now host the Cinematour website for him and I've personally seen the immense amount of effort Adam puts into the site. He puts more effort into it than most people do their jobs. I don't see Cinema Treasures running all over the country driving hundreds of miles in a day just to hit every theater they can locate, collect data and take pictures. That's where my [Razz]

comes from, as even though both sites have their merits, Cinematour is miles ahead. [thumbsup]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-28-2003 12:08 PM

Brad,
I would gove both sites a big thumbsup: [thumbsup]

An no my browsers graphics is not turned off. I plan on and have participated equally in both sites. I hope you could be open minded enough do the same thing.
Mark

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Gordon Bachlund
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 696
From: Monrovia, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 11-28-2003 03:14 PM

I didn't even know about cinematreasures until I read this post. I visited it this morning and found numerous LA area theatres where I worked in the 1950s and early 60s, and I happily added my recolllections and comments to each.

I have visited cinematour often and enjoy it. Now I shall look in on both sites from time to time when I feel a need to escape the present by glancing back at the past.

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Scott D. Neff
Theatre Dork

Posts: 919
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 11-28-2003 05:26 PM

I've been a major fan of Cinematour since way back in the day.

The most difficult thing to monitor with Cinematour is whether or not a theatre is open or closed. I know what's open in my neck of the woods, but often I'll make one trip around the suburbs of Chicago and give info based on what I found during the one trip. If somebody turns around and opens or closes a theatre in the meantime, I don't find that out unless they A) e-mail Adam or B) I go back to Chicago and decide to drive past the same theatres I've already driven past.

Adam and I have been on trips where we have racked up THOUSANDS of miles driving around, meeting theatre owners and managers and just trying to catalog and photograph theatres for historical purposes.

While I enjoy Cinema Treasures for a lot of features, my biggest issue is that they have ONE picture per theatre. And then because anybody can add content, there's a bunch of "One time I went to the movies and saw E.T. here. It was cool!!!" posts. Also, they have the multiple categories cross referenced by Theatre Chain, Architect and what not, but they don't have all the information correct either. I did a search for Century Theatres and it brought up a bunch of stuff on the east coast that Syufy/Century never owned.

I tried contributing to Cinema Treasures before I got heavily involved with CinemaTour. I found that they rely too heavily on user contribution. I would say maybe 80% of the theatres in my area aren't even listed and I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. When I found CinemaTour most every theatre I could THINK of was in the database, and all I had to do was send in updates and corrections.

To this day I'd LOVE to set up an information exchange between CinemaTour and Cinema Treasures and even see if they have anything Film-Tech can use.

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Roger Katz
Film Handler

Posts: 61
From: Thomaston, CT, USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 11-28-2003 10:11 PM

quote:
Both sites in reality have about the same number of world wide listings.

Cinema Treasures has roughly 5,300 listings at this time while CinemaTour has nearly 25,000. That is not even close to the same number. I am a Volunteer Guide at Cinema Treasures where I have contributed many listings and photographs. Additionally, I do a heavy amount of research and photography for CinemaTour. Both sites are great, but do contain some errors. These errors only get updated when people point them out. The openings and closings and changing of owners can be hard to keep track of.

I like Cinema Treasures daily updates, but now with CinemaTour's message board you can read and post news there as well.

My favorite aspect of either site is CinemaTour's extensive collection of photographs of many cinemas (I love being able to take 40 photos of a cinema and have them all displayed, not just choose one.) But Cinema Treasures is overhauling the Add-A-Photo system and promises to support multiple images for each theatre as well.

The sites are different and everyone will have their personal favorite - I prefer one, although I won't tell which - but both contribute greatly to the preservation of theatres and their history.

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 11-28-2003 10:46 PM

Actually, CinemaTour has 31,720 cinemas listed and 5,363 of those have at least one photo displayed.

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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-01-2003 01:27 AM

quote:
Mark is exactly right. Sites that depend heavily on user participation are only as good as what is shared

Not "only". The people who operate it actually select what info to put up, correct things, & in the largest part themselves are the ones who are generating the information they put up.

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 12-02-2003 11:08 AM

Hey Adam

I was looking at the Southern California area on CinemaTour. And here are a few corrections for the Southern California area.

Theatres that are double listed

Bijou Twin #2043 and Hermosa #16192
Century #16022 and Hunley's #16034
Marcal #16037 and World #16046 also wrong address listed
Beverly #2108 and Beverly #20091 add aka: "Europa"
La Mar #16257 and La Mar #16193
Crest #16075 and Lyric #16076
Colonial #3078 and Ritz #3428
Bards #16024 and Vista #2151
Warners #3937 and Uptown #16160

Triple listed Theatres

Melvan #20095 and Continental #16026 and Encore #16028

Wrong Picture listed

Royale #17491 (picture listed is the UA Alameda #16072)

New Theatre aka's

Apollo #16023 add aka: Star
Hollywood Music Hall #16038 add aka: Holly,Studio,Academy
Crest #2116 add aka: Uclan and Metro
Academy #11257 add aka: Colorado, Bards

Demolished Theatres

Ritz #2136
Sunset #20098

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-02-2003 05:06 PM

Thanks, Bill! [thumbsup]

I'll get this in the next CinemaTour update.

Edit: Actually, I have some questions. I apologize for using Bill as an example here, but it will help some to understand why this can be so frustrating and time consuming sometimes. [Smile]

Century #16022 and Hunley's #16034 ... these two are listed at very different addresses on Hollywood Blvd. Are these two in face the same and which address is correct?

Marcal #16037 and World #16046 also wrong address listed ... which address is correct? (Actually, someone else's email says the address is 6021, but they also said the World wasn't listed, so I probably tossed their email into the "done" folder after they didn't respond to my inquiry.) So I guess I'll put this at 6021 Hollywood Blvd. But I have the Marcal listed as demolished. If they are the same, was it demolished or not?

La Mar #16257 and La Mar #16193 ... Should this be correctly listed in Manhattan Beach or Hermosa Beach?

Melvan #20095 and Continental #16026 and Encore #16028 ... the Continental is #16027 and the Colony is #16026. Which theater should I merge?

Sunset #20098 ... are you certain this is demolished? I photographed it back in May of this year.

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 12-02-2003 09:52 PM

For the Century and Hunley's use the 5115 Hollywood Blvd. address. The 6103 Hollywood Blvd. address puts the Century in the wrong part of Hollywood Blvd.

Marcal and World use the 6021 Hollywood Blvd. address, because that puts the theatre next to the X Twin Theatre at 5959 Hollywood Blvd.. This was the problem that Bob Mesa picture started. The Marcal became the World in the early 60's.

La Mar should be listed in Manhattan Beach.

The triple listed theatre. It opened as the Melvan, then became the Encore and then the Continental.
It's #16027 (ok my typing sucks) [Smile]

The Sunset #20098. It is now a big hole in the ground. I was in LA, November 1st and I drove by the location.

I also have 76 more Los Angeles theatres that CinemaTour is missing from the Los Angeles area.

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-02-2003 10:18 PM

Please do email me a list of the theaters I need to add, including the neighborhoods they should be listed in.

I've been concentrating (when I can) on the Bay Area, but I'm not quite ready to post my additions yet. Polk stopped publishing their Oakland directory in 1943 and threw a wrench in my initial research methods.

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