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Author Topic: Telescopes
Jason Black
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1723
From: Myrtle Beach, SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-18-2003 10:11 PM      Profile for Jason Black   Author's Homepage   Email Jason Black   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm in need of info on telescopes. I'm considering buying one for a gift for the in-laws, in part becuase the wife and I did the 'Name a Star' gift for my mother in law, in memory of my father in law.

I thought it would be a cool idea to maybe get them one and also maybe get one for the wife and myself at the same time. I must admit, I know squat about astrology and telescopes, but I figured Greg Mueller might, or mayeb others here would have an interest. I don't want to drop a huge load of cash on one just yet, but I've seen some that look pretty nice for the $3-400 range. Of course, I'd most likely get two of the same, so that I could explain to the sis-in-law how to use it, etc...

Anyone have any advice on what direction I should take? Websites to check out etc?

Thanks a bunch!

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Nicholas Suchyta
Film Handler

Posts: 62
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted 12-18-2003 11:54 PM      Profile for Nicholas Suchyta   Email Nicholas Suchyta   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Meade makes the best consumer telescopes out there, check out their website, that will have a lot more info then i can give you.

Meade

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 12-19-2003 01:11 AM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree about Meade. I have an ETX-90 that I use for looking in the neighbor's houses across the canyon. I got the idea from the film "10". [evil] [beer]

Seriously, it's a great telescope. Built-in computer and motorized base for pointing to the thing that you want to look at. Then it automatically tracks it to keep it in view. Lots of accessories including film and video camera mounts, different eye-pieces, etc.

I used it a lot during the mars event.

I don't have a clue of how many $ it was...I got it a couple of years ago.

>>> Phil

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 12-19-2003 01:23 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Phil uses the automatic tracking when looking in people's windows as he can stay locked on the target even as the tectonic plates slide past each other at the fault line.

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 12-19-2003 01:37 AM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
Hahahaha...nice try, Steve. But, we are on the same plate! [Smile] [beer] [Razz]

>>> Phil

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Dick Vaughan
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1032
From: Bradford, West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 12-19-2003 02:28 AM      Profile for Dick Vaughan   Author's Homepage   Email Dick Vaughan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I suppose Phil also has a device to remind him which eye the patch is over [Wink]

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 12-19-2003 01:11 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Astrology and telescopes... [Big Grin]

Here's a FAQ to get you started:
http://www.perkins-observatory.org/FAQ.index.html

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-19-2003 02:19 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Might I mention that one of the points some manufacturers use to sell scopes is "maginfication" which is, in reality, a poor measure of an instrument's quality. What you REALLY want to pay attention to is the ƒ-number, just like cameras and projector lenses.

To the unwashed masses, it's easier to sell scopes that have "1,000 X maginfication" whereas only a fraction of the population would even understand the difference between "ƒ-8" and "ƒ-12".

Most of us know this already: Divide the focal length of some optical instrument by its aperture diameter and you get the ƒ-number. The lower the ƒ-number, the better the instrument's light transmission ability is.

When looking through a telescope to see the distant heavens, you really want your instrument to have a better light gathering ability rather than the ability to enlarge objects. Many people think the other way around. When they can't see distant objects like Mars or the Great Orion Nebula very clearly they get discouraged. After a while, they will end up looking at the moon and not much else.

Now, here's the catch... For your average terrestrial telescope, you would think the lower the ƒ-number the better. That's true to a point. However when you get too low, the scope LOSES abiltiy to distinguish objects from one another. What happens is that it's gathering so much light from "sky glow" (the natural luminescence of the night sky) and "light pollution" (light from earthly sources like street lights) that the things you really want to see get washed out. Simply, the instrument loses contrast. You would probably want a scope with an ƒ-number in the ƒ-6 to ƒ-8 range.

Next, think about the exit pupil. I'm talking about the size of the "hole" where the image comes out of the eyepiece. The larger the exit pupil the more light gets to your eye. In full darkness the human eye dialates to about 7mm. If the exit pupil of the instrument is much smaller than that, it's too hard to see the image. To calculate the exit pupil of an optical instrument, divide the aperture diameter by the focal length of the eyepiece. You want an exit pupil in the 5mm - 8mm range. (This is another reason to avoid high power telescopes!)

Once you get these two things figured out, the only thing you need to worry about is design and/or features. Do you want a refracting telscope, a reflector or a Schmidt-Casagrain? That depends on how much you want to spend versus how much you think you'll use the thing.

Check out THIS PAGE for details on telescope types.

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 12-19-2003 03:13 PM      Profile for Jeffry L. Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Jeffry L. Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Google Directory Science > Astronomy > Amateur > Beginners

review of Bad Astronomy
quote:
He also has some advice for those who are thinking of paying to have a star named for someone. Not a good move, unless you don't mind giving somebody money for a piece of paper you could print out yourself. The star names you pay for are not considered official by professional astronomers. Plait's brothers paid International Star Registry (ISR) to name a star located in the constellation Andromeda "Philip Cary Plait." Unfortunately, all astronomers call this star BD+48° 683.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 12-19-2003 03:36 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The sentiment of having "your personal" star name in a book registered with US copyright office is romantic, if not financially prudent. [Roll Eyes]

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Jason Black
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1723
From: Myrtle Beach, SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-19-2003 03:39 PM      Profile for Jason Black   Author's Homepage   Email Jason Black   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jeffery,

I would have imagined such all along. It doesn't take a genious to figure out that this is a mere money making scheme, but I thought it a nice gesture for the family, as they have told my niece that her 'pop-pop' is with Luna. Luna being a star on some kid show that she watches.

It's a gesture for me, but it's still a good way to get someone looking at what's up above us all...

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm doing my research now...

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 12-19-2003 05:13 PM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree about naming a star. WhoTF ***cares*** what those science nerds call them? It is romantic and just plain kewl!

We gave my son one in his name 20 years ago for his 16th B'day. He still "displays" the registration. [beer]

Don't be such a stick-in-the-mud....try as little "love" and romance. [Wink]

>>> Phil

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 12-20-2003 11:28 AM      Profile for Jeffry L. Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Jeffry L. Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry I'm such a "stick-in-the-mud" but I think there are better ways to show caring and affection to a loved one than sending money to a company who will add your loved one's name to a book and send you a piece of paper with your loved one's name printed on it.

Why not make a donation to a group or organization that your loved one was involved in or cared about? I think this would be more meaningful.

An Explanation of the International Star Registry
quote:
An Explanation of the International Star Registry

Name a star yourself for free

What is the International Star Registry?

The International Star Registry is a private for profit company that for a fee will name a star what ever you choose to name it.

Is this official?

No. The only body with recognized authority to name astronomical objects is the International Astronomical Union (IAU for short). The IAU has a naming committee in charge of setting designations for astronomical objects.

But they said the name would be copyrighted....

And the name will be copyrighted. What this company does is they publish a book with all the star names and copyright the book.

Get your money's worth

As far as I know, the International Star Registry does not provide any false information about what they are doing. However as a private citizen with some imagination you could name a star in the same way and achieve the same results without any expense. (See below to learn how to do this)

I know of a few not-for-profit organizations that help promote the International Star Registry and in exchange share the profits from any sales that they might bring to the ISR. So you could support a cause you believe in by making a purchase from the ISR .
Finding your star

Locating the star you have purchased can in some instances be difficult. The Right Ascension and Declination coordinates (like longitude and latitude on the sky) are quoted to a level of accuracy that may make it difficult to locate your star using the coordinates alone. The coordinates will get you in the right part of the sky but if there are a lot of other stars near by (a crowded field) you will need to use the sky chart they provide to tell which star of many it is.

This makes it difficult to take a picture of your star with a robotic telescope like the CWRU Nassau Station Robotic Telescope because it requires human interaction to do the final aiming of the telscope and get the correct star centered in the picture.

What is your angle?

This page is here because as an astronomer who does public outreach, I get a lot of questions about the ISR. When we brought the CWRU Nassau Station Robotic Telescope online we got a lot of requests from people to take a picture of the star they had purchased from the ISR. It isn't possible under most circumstances to take a picture of your star with the NSRT for the reason I cited above. I don't like making people feel bad about their purchase but I want to give people an honest answer about the ISR. I appologize to anyone who may be hurt to find out something that they didn't suspect.

If there is another company you have encountered that is selling stars in a similar fashion e-mail me. I'd like to keep up to date on what is out there.

How can I name a star for free?

There is no way to get a star or other astronomical object named after someone unless you happen to discover a new asteroid, in which case you can name it (but that's a real long shot for a amateur in the backyard). Assuming that the importance of naming a star is the shared sentiment between the giver and the receiver and not the officallity of the name, there is a simple way you can name a star for free.

Just go outside on a clear night, pick a constellation you are familiar with, and pick a bright star in the constellation. Now name that star what ever you want and share that with a friend. To you and yours that star will have that name.

Voila! You didn't spend a dime. You can see the star without the aid of a telescope which makes it much better for sharing with a loved one. And you get to pick out the star.

Other gift ideas

For about the same amount of money that the ISR charges to name a star, you can buy a loved one who is interested in Astronomy:

* Membership in the International Dark-Sky Association
* Membership for a local Astronomy Club
* A subscription to a popular astronomy magazine
* Star Atlas
* Astronomy computer programs
* Eyepieces for a telescope
* A pair of binoculars

Good Luck and Clear Skies.

Star-Naming Company Issued a Violation for Deceptive Advertising
quote:
Subject: NEW YORK CITY DEPT. ISSUES VIOLATION TO STAR-NAMING COMPANY

THE FOLLOWING RELEASE WAS RECEIVED TODAY FROM THE NEW YORK CITY DEPARTMENT OF CONSUMER AFFAIRS, IN NEW YORK, NY, AND IS FORWARDED FOR YOUR INFORMATION. (NOTE THAT THE REFERENCE TO "THIS WEEKEND" REFERS TO THE WEEKEND OF MAY 9-10 AS THE ORIGINAL HARD COPY RELEASE WAS ISSUED ON MAY 8; MAY 10 WAS THE U.S.A. & CANADA "MOTHER'S DAY" HOLIDAY.) Steve Maran, American Astronomical Society

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
May 8, 1998
Contact: Tom Sclafani, 212-487-4239 & 917-672-4604

Consumer Affairs Commissioner Polonetsky Warns Consumers: "Buying A Star Won't Make You One"

Commissioner Jules Polonetsky Warns Mother's Day Gift-Givers About Turning Their Mothers Into Stars; Star-Naming Company Issued a Violation for Deceptive Advertising

For those sons and daughters looking to make their mothers "stars" this weekend, Consumer Affairs Commissioner Jules Polonetsky today said that paying to name stars after loved ones is simply throwing money into a black hole. The Commissioner said that companies that offer to "officially" name a star fail to tell consumers that they don't have the authority to do it. The International Astronomical Union is the only recognized star-naming organization, and it does not sell names.

As a result of a Department of Consumer Affairs (DCA) investigation, the agency has issued a violation against an Illinois star-naming company for engaging in a deceptive trade practice. The International Star Registry (ISR) faces maximum fines of $3,500 or more.

"Consumers whose gifts have them reaching for the stars must remember to keep their feet on the ground," said Commissioner Polonetsky. "Star-naming companies fool consumers into thinking that they can `become' a star by attaching their name to one, but in reality, the star names are nothing more than a listing in the company's own book."

"There are certain commercial and some nonprofit organizations that may offer a service to "register" a star in someone's name, generally for a fee, but these are neither sanctioned by the International Astronomical Union (IAU) nor used by professional astronomers," said Professor Helene Dickel, Chairperson of the IAU Task Group on Designations.

ISR charges $50-$100 for "new" star names which are listed in their own book entitled "Your Place in the Cosmos." Consumers who buy star names also receive a certificate declaring the "official" name of the star. "Wishing upon their `own' star can't change the fact that consumers are getting nothing more than a piece of paper in a frame," said Commissioner Polonetsky. "Other than a sidewalk in Hollywood, consumers who want their own star are better off saving their money by walking into Central Park, pointing to the sky and naming it themselves."

A DCA investigation found that while the company's advertisement implies that its star-naming registry is "official," their salespeople admitted that "NASA and astronomers are always going to continue to use a series of telescopic coordinate numbers" when questioned by DCA undercover inspectors.

Chapter 5 of Title 20 of the New York City Administrative Code prohibits false or misleading representations of a product's approval, status, or affiliation.

# # #


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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-20-2003 08:49 PM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've had Meade scopes, but would never have one again. Not because they make bad scopes but because of their customer service (lack of) around the amateur circles it's referred to as "The Meade Attitude".
Actually Meade makes "average" Schmidt Cassegrin scopes, a design they stole from Celestron. A beginner would be better off with an 8" newtonian on a dobsonian mount. It's the most bang for the buck and hard to screw up the design. An 8" reflector will give you a good taste of whats up there without breaking your bank, and if you decide you don't like the hobby you're not out a lot of dough. The configuration I mention can be had for half of what the Meade SCTs sell for.
You might also check the Little Nickel. Sometimes people buy scopes and then never use them. They sit in the closet until it's garage sale time etc. I've gotten some good deals that way. Also check out your local astronomy club. Chances are there's someone there who is selling a scope to move up to a bigger one. You can also go to the club's "star parties" and look through a variety of scopes, the owners of which will be glad to show you how well their scope works. That way you can decide what type and size of scope you'd like.
Above all stay away from dime store scopes sold by "the power" as mentioned above. That way lies madness and disappointment

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Jason Black
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1723
From: Myrtle Beach, SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-20-2003 09:17 PM      Profile for Jason Black   Author's Homepage   Email Jason Black   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greg,

Unfortunately, I have had no luck in finding anyone locally who has a telescope that I can "test". There are no local clubs, that I can find. I have found (thru your email links) setups like you mentioned at a price I consider fair ($400 range). I figure, worst case scenario, I get one and if I don't like it or am not as interested as I think I'd be (read.. disappointed) I can always sell it on Ebay. I'm glad that you have given me the links and the advice you have.

On a side note, I'm aware that Art Linkletter is opening a Planetarium a few miles away from my house in the Spring of '04. That may help spring interest in a local club....

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