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Author Topic: How fast did steam engines go? Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-22-2004 03:25 PM                        Sometimes when I watch Western movies, I wonder how fast the steam trains in that era actually went. How long did it take to travel from coast to coast? Did the passengers stay on the train all the time, or would the trains stop for the night in a town?  |  IP: Logged Travis Hubrig Expert Film Handler Posts: 175 From: Minot ND, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 02-22-2004 03:28 PM                     Didn't you watch Back to the Future III? Doc had that locomotive going about 85 mph on a straightaway.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-22-2004 03:52 PM                     A rule of thumb: The bigger the drivers, the faster they go. Sunday, 3rd July 1938 went down in railway history as the day that London North Eastern Railway Gresley A4 Pacific 'Mallard' became the holder of the world speed record for steam locomotives at 126 mph (approx 202 km/h) - a record which still stands today. 'Mallard' achieved the record on the slight downward grade of Stoke Bank, south of Grantham and the highest speed wasrecorded at milepost 90¼, between the towns of Little Blytham and Essendine. The sleek streamlined shape of 'Mallard' is instantly recognisable by both the public and railway enthusiasts alike, and the engine proudly carries a plaque announcing her record-breaking achievement. Hey Travis...what is the wheel configuration of the steam locomotive on display at the rail station in Minot?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-22-2004 03:57 PM                     Here is the link to the Mallard page. These were amazing engines to say the least. I read someplace that the Brits are working up a new Steam Engine design........ http://www.o-keating.com/hsr/mallard.htm Mark  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-22-2004 04:02 PM                     Mark, that thing must have at least 10-foot drivers....capable of going like a Bat out of Purgatory.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 02-22-2004 04:36 PM                        ... and the Mallard can now be seen on display about 10 minutes' walk from my flat, at the National Railway Museum in York. Ironically it travelled at roughly twice the speed of the clapped-out 1970s pile of poo which takes me trundling past its final resting place on my way to work... In answer to Michael's question, by the early 20th century main-line express trains were averaging 100mph. Apart from specialist railway technologies such as tilting trains, the Japanese 'Bullet Train' and MagLev, that hasn't really changed at all in the last century.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-22-2004 04:46 PM                     But my favorite still is and will always be........ http://www.steamlocomotive.com/bigboy/ Capable of pulling a 3600 ton train at 80 miles per hour If I had a cool million I know what I'd be doing.... Mark  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-22-2004 05:18 PM                        And in the Western era? I would also be interested to know something about the travel conditions in those days like I wrote above.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-22-2004 05:34 PM                     Well, It used to take two days to go over the Rollins Pass..... If you made it. There was a big Hotel up on top and you stayed there one night then decended down the other side the next day. Since I've driven that pass in my Kia and the slope upward is easy, I'd say the average speed in the ealy 1900's on that trip was a bit faster than walking going up...going down I don't know. It was replaced by the Moffatt Tunnell in the late 1920's. The tunnel is one of the longest in the U.S. at over 6 miles. Here's whats its like up on top these days...a worthwhile trip indeed! This stream was used to water the locomotives and is about half way up to the top. Here is another site with more photos of Rollins Pass. http://www.matts-place.com/trains/colorado/rollins.html http://colorado.railfan.net/moffat/moff1.html Mark  |  IP: Logged John Eickhof Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 588 From: Wendell, ID USA Registered: Jan 2000 posted 02-22-2004 05:35 PM                        Unfortunately for us, the steam era passed rapidly, I was always under the impression that the actual raw power of any steam engine, locomotive or fixed plant was basically unlimited?? With double and triple expansion etc. the power was unbelievable! You must consider the relatively primative condition of the tracks and roadbed in the early days, unlike todays railroads..When I was riding in the FP-45 diesel behind the SP&S locomotive a couple years ago, we travelled on the Montana Rail Link from Billings Mt, to Sandpoint, ID. Depending on the condition of the rail, we assumed 85-90 mph at times! The ride was very smooth in the diesel, but when I took a ride in the cab of the steam locomotive, it was very very rough!! The suspension on these old beasts is something to definitely improve on! And they did later on! But, the ride was probably the most fun 3 days I have ever had!! In fact, of the many times I have cab-hopped in diesels, we never reached speeds as fast and smooth as the steam locomotive does! I remember riding the cab of the UP 844 years ago, it was a little smoother, maybe because it weighs about twice as much as the SPS loco! Anyway, HI evryone! I'm still lurking around!!  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-22-2004 09:13 PM                     My neighbor who is a live steamer and who used to work in a factory where they built stokers told me that steam locomotives used to regularly hit 100 MPH in his day. On occasion he's seen them do 120+. The story was told to me that trains had to be on schedule at all costs back in those days. Although there were supposed to be speed limits on the lines a lot of engineers took them only as suggestions. If a train came in late there'd be hell to pay. Guys knew just what tricks they could use to get every last ounce of speed out of their engines and they knew just how hard they could push them before something would give. Sorta' like Mr. Scott calling up from the engine room, "I'm givin' her all she's got, Cap'n! If I push 'er any harder she's liable to BLOW APART!"  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 02-22-2004 10:03 PM                    Some feel that a rough rule of thumb is that a steam locomotive's top speed in MPH corresponded to its driver diameter in inches. That falls apart, however, at both ends of the scale. A drag freight 2-8-0 with 57" drivers isn't going to go 57 MPH (maybe 45); if it got anywhere near that speed it would probably shake itself apart. On the other hand engines with 80" drivers could and did hit 100 MPH or more in normal everyday service. When the Burlington (Chicago, Burlington & Quincy, the historical Burlington which ran Chicago to Denver and Chicago to Minneapolis/St. Paul) introduced the diesel Zephyr trains in the mid-1930's they wanted to have protection power to handle the trains when the diesel was in the shop. So they took their S-4 class Hudson-type (4-6-4) design, made a few improvements and built one with a stainless steel streamlined shroud to match the train. The engine was successful and an existing S-4 was given the same treatment. They were capable of easily exceeding 100 MPH with a heavy train. Yet they only had 78" drivers. The streamlined shrouds were later removed. Both were given the name Aeolus ("Keeper of the Winds" -- makes sense since "Zephyr" is a wind) but were nicknamed Big Alice the Goon by crews, after a character in Popeye comics. The original Alice, #4000, still exists and is displayed in a park in LaCrosse, WI and recently received a new paint job. Aeolus #4000 in her streamlined days  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-22-2004 10:12 PM                     Here is a partial picture of the backhead in a Big Boy. I can't seem to understand how the fireman kept track of all of the valves without really screwing up. I took this picture in Green Bay, Wisconsin.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 02-22-2004 10:25 PM                    That cluster of valves in the middle are for the stoker jets. The stoker (an Archemedian screw driven by a small steam engine) would dump the coal onto a plate just inside the firebox. A set of steam jets would then blast the coal to different parts of the firebox. So there was a control for each jet and a main control too. And one to control the stoker engine. Then you've got a blower valve (steam jet that provides boiler draft when the engine is stationary), injector controls (puts water into the boiler; there's another on the engineer's side), various blow-downs (to remove sludge from the bottom of the boiler and firebox water legs), and usually atop the backhead, valves to turn on the electric dynamo (driven by a steam turbine), the air pumps (for the brakes), etc. They add up pretty quickly. But most were not things that would be touched constantly. In some cabs some of the valves would be labeled with little metal plates. Often not. I have no doubt that sometimes a crew would board an unfamiliar engine and if they couldn't figure out what a particular valve or cock (in rail parlance) did from what it was connected to would probably take a quick look around to see if anyone was watching and give it a turn to see what it did.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-22-2004 10:37 PM                     Probably takes a few days for the fireman to know what the heck he is doing.  |  IP: Logged

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