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Author Topic: Casino Style Gambling/Tattoos coming to OKC?
Manuel Francisco Valencia
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 151
From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 02-23-2004 11:25 PM      Profile for Manuel Francisco Valencia   Email Manuel Francisco Valencia   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For us Okies

As I understand it the motion for casino style gambling at Remington Park and tattoos has been passed in the Senate and now awaits the House's decision. I have not been following this too much so this is all I know. I am very interested in this seeing as how Remington Park is right across the street from us. If this works out then that will definitely bring in more business.

Has anyone heard anything else about this?
Bobby Henderson?
Jeff Stuckey?
Daniel Wright?
John McConnel?

Not too many of us Okies here at FT eh.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-24-2004 10:45 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I haven't heard about the effort to bring casino gambling to Remington Park. But I have strong doubts it will happen due to the political influence of religious fundamentalists in Tulsa. They're the main reason why we have no state lottery either. The gambling ban really makes no sense. In Oklahoma, if you throw a rock you'll hit an Indian gaming casino (or if you miss you'll hit one of many thousands of Dollar General stores).

So everyone just drives down I-35 to Gainesville, TX or I-44 to Burkburnett to get their lottery tickets. And while they're there, they stock up on six-point beer! Isn't it great to live in a state where most beer is 3.2 type? It takes guzzling a six pack in an hour just get a buzz. But you give your kidneys a workout and fill up the toilet with pee!

I'm not sure I understand the tattoos thing. Women by the many thousands have been driving down to Wichita Falls to get their ink on. It is rare for me to encounter a woman in Oklahoma not already crawling with tattoos. Perhaps they passed the law allowing tattoos as a form of reverse psychology. Now that they're legal, who's going to care about getting one? Maybe that's how they should have handled piercings. Geez, people in Oklahoma are more pierced than pincussions!

As for me, I have no tattoos or piercings. I guess that makes me really strange.

I could go further into the wierd Texas versus Oklahoma things on what is allowed or banned on either side of the Red River. In Oklahoma, hardcore pornography is against the law. In Texas it is legal in most parts of the state. You can buy sex toys in Oklahoma, but you can't get them in Texas. Hmmm. Maybe I'll open up porn and toys stores on both sides of the Red River. I'll be rich, Biatch!

[ 02-24-2004, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Bobby Henderson ]

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Gary Crawford
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 200
From: Neptune NJ USA
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted 02-24-2004 02:09 PM      Profile for Gary Crawford   Email Gary Crawford   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here in NJ the horse racing industry has been crying for years that they are in immediate danger of going belly-up. They feel that allowing slots and similar things at tracks will help. In some states it actually does help. There are a few horse tracks that were in trouble and slots all but saved them.

The casino industry feels that slots at the tracks will cause THEM to go belly-up. NJ was the second state to allow casinos (after Nevada) and they seem to be doing okay, even with the new Indian casinos in Connecticut and OTB in NY and PA. The casinos import simulcast racing but don't want to allow tracks to have slots.

*Guys grabs ball and runs away screaming MINE! MINE! MINE!*

On a common sense basis, it makes no sense to ban something when anyone can ride a couple hours away and do it anyway somewhere else. If people are willing to give away their money why not take it from them closer to home?

Blue laws and morality issues only make the "wicked" find it somewhere else. If states allow it then they can tax it and make themselves a bundle. Who cares where the income originates? In NJ this income is almost free money for the State.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-24-2004 02:16 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Finger Lakes Racetrack, near Rochester, just opened a new facility featuring over 1000 Video Lottery Tables:

http://www.rochesterdandc.com/sports/general/02088U3770O_sports.shtml

quote:
(February 8, 2004) — FARMINGTON — The news of the dramatically increased purse structure at Finger Lakes Gaming and Racetrack had been public knowledge for only a few days, perhaps just hours, and already phones were ringing.

Buy horses, the owners were telling their trainers.

“I had one owner call and say, ‘Here’s $25,000, let’s you and me go get some horses,’” said M. Anthony Ferraro, one of the top trainers at Finger Lakes.

For the first time in ages, there is true excitement about the future of the area’s only thoroughbred track, and the anxiety and thrills are not being generated by photo finishes.

Instead, a one-time enemy of the racetrack, casino-style gaming, is being heralded as the savior of the Sport of Kings in New York.

Video lottery terminals start spinning for the first time at Finger Lakes on Feb. 18, and the 44-year-old track expects to live another generation thanks to the quarters and dollars spent with every push of a button on the virtual slot machines.

“Opening day will be a wonderful thing for the horsemen, thanks to the increased purses,” Paul Steckel, head of the Finger Lakes Horsemen’s Benevolent and Protective Association, said of the immediate 35 percent boost in the money paid out to horse owners every race.

The worst horses at the track will race for nearly $7,000, up from $5,100, during the 160-day season that opens April 16. The better horses will see purses rise from $16,000 to around $21,600. For the winning owner, that’s a check of $12,960 instead of $9,600.

“A lot of people want to get in the game,” said Jack Ryan, a longtime horse owner at Finger Lakes, “and people that got out want back in.”

Before legislation allowed the state’s racetracks to operate slot machine-style casinos, the future of Finger Lakes was bleak. There was a stampede of owners fleeing the stables, tired of thousands upon thousands of dollars in annual losses.

“We were losing a half-dozen to a dozen owners a year,” Steckel said, “and gaining maybe three to replace them.”

You do the math. Fewer owners meant fewer horses. Fewer horses meant small fields in races. Small fields meant unattractive wagering propositions. A modest return on wagers meant a decline in betting. A decline in betting at the mutuel windows meant the track could eventually lose money.

And Delaware North Cos., the owner of Finger Lakes, doesn’t tolerate red ink within its corporation.

“They get rid of things that don’t make money,” said Finger Lakes general manager Chris Riegle.

Thus, without the VLTs, the track just off Route 96 in Farmington might have been condominiums by the year 2010.

“For the short term we would have survived,” Riegle said. “For the medium term, no. I wouldn’t even say long-term because there would have been no long term. Sometime this year, and by ‘05 at the latest, we would have had a shortened season because we couldn’t have paid the purses.”

Now there’s the hope that people at the track — owners, trainers and handicappers alike — will need bigger purses to carry home their money.

If revenue from the 1,010 VLTs at Finger Lakes is strong, purses could increase 50 percent from the levels that they were at a year ago. In two years, they could double.

“This will encourage these guys to go out and get a little better horses, and more of them,” Riegle said.

It also may encourage owners and trainers from throughout the Northeast to ship their horses to Finger Lakes.

“We’ve gotten calls from across the country asking, ‘How do I get stalls?’” said Brad Lewis, recently hired as director of racing. “They want to get in now.”

Finger Lakes is prepared for renewed interest from other parts of the country. Of the 1,200 stalls on the backside, 900 will be allotted to existing Finger Lakes trainers; 300 will be for newcomers.

“There’s an axiom in racing that horses follow the money,” said Martin Kinsella, executive director of the New York State Thoroughbred Breeding & Development Fund. “I think the VLTs will do a lot to help Finger Lakes.”

The track, and the state for that matter, have dived into the VLT venture believing people will chase their money dreams by watching 7’s or diamonds or ducks spin round and round. Gov. George Pataki hopes to help solve budget problems with the state’s share of the profits; the state has budgeted $45 million in income from Finger Lakes alone this year.

The VLTs are in essence slot machines without the handle. There’s also one other big difference: Players aren’t competing against the machine. Instead, they are grouped together in a pool and play against a central system that determines payouts.

On average, 92 cents of every dollar wagered on VLTs at Finger Lakes will be returned in prizes. The biggest payout is $100,000.

Of the 8 cents skimmed from every wager, 71 percent goes to the state, 20.24 percent goes to Finger Lakes, the horsemen get 7.51 percent in the form of purse money, and the state breeding program receives 1.25 percent.

“Racinos,” as racetracks with slots are known, are new to New York but not the country. Slot machines at Mountaineer Park in Chester, W.Va., and Delaware Park in Wilmington, Del., not only saved racing, but also transformed it into a wildly successful venture for horsemen. At Dover Downs, a harness track in Delaware, purses ballooned from an average of $900 per race to nearly $10,000.

Purses at Mountaineer are double and triple what Finger Lakes offers, which is why some local trainers have made the five-hour commute to West Virginia every week to run their horses. They’d train them at Finger Lakes and then hit the road.

“We were becoming a partial training center for Mountaineer,” said Riegle, who bristled at the thought of the better horses at his track taking up stall space and racing elsewhere. “But how do you say they can’t do it? They have to make a living.”

Now many of those same horses can run at Finger Lakes for not quite the same money but with the convenience of not shipping out of state.

But while horsemen see VLTs as an answer to their prayers, not everyone hails their arrival.

“They’re definitely going to cause some problems because it’s just more temptation,” said Joyce Barrett, a peer counselor at Problem Gamblers Treatment Program of the Health Association in Rochester. “For some who have never gambled, they maybe just want to try it and they’re hooked. It happens so quickly.

“I’ve seen where people have lost their homes or their marriages because of gambling.”

Until now, to find slot-style gaming, people in Rochester faced a 90-minute or two-hour drive to Turning Stone Casino in Verona or one of the casinos on either side of Niagara Falls.

“Now you plan a half-hour trip,” Barrett said. “It’s too handy.”

The Rev. Duane Motley of Spencerport agrees.

“We’ll have a lot more problem gamblers, and that leads to work problems, marital problems, social problems,” Motley said. “It’s bad economic policy to fund a state government through gambling because gambling is very cyclic. And it always creates problems.

“There have been studies throughout the country that show for every dollar the state receives from gambling, it costs a minimum of $3 in social costs.”

Motley cited a study in Florida that indicated for every dollar gained by the state, $13 was spent on spinoff costs associated with gambling. “Law enforcement, the judicial system, crime, incarcerations, social services because of the increase in bankruptcies, help to cover families that have lost their wealth,” he said, adding:

“That’s why we’re opposed to it from a moral and social standpoint.”

Motley and his organization, New Yorkers for Constitutional Freedoms, oppose the racinos because he says they violate the state constitution.

“They’re not put there for the benefit of education, they’re being put there for the benefit of the track,” Motley said. “The constitution also says there is to be no commercialized gambling, and this is.”

His group has filed suit to stop the VLTs from spinning. With appeals, it could be years before anything is decided.

In the meantime, folks at Finger Lakes and the surrounding area will reap the benefits.

“If it’s anything like the horse business used to be, we’re hoping it will generate a whole different clientele,” said Jay Daniels, banquet coordinator at DiPacifics, a restaurant and bar at routes 96 and 332, just a quarter-mile from the track.

“The racing clientele we had was an older crowd. There’s not as many around. We’re hoping this will generate a younger clientele.”

The track itself has similar goals. The dream would be for VLT players to wander upstairs and enjoy the races.

“Horse racing has been on the decline for years, but now maybe people will drive out to Finger Lakes to play the machines and say, ‘This is a pretty cool spot’ and come back for a day at the races,” Kinsella said. “We hope VLTs will spark interest in horse racing.”

Horse players have the same dreams.

“I used to go to the track all the time but I’ve lost some interest in Finger Lakes,” said David White of Rochester. “It used to be a lot more entertaining, there was a better quality of horses and the track seemed a lot cleaner. It’s been fading away.

“I think the machines will be a big benefit.”

For patrons that go to play the slots, horse racing will be one of the perks. Unlike Turning Stone, which has golf courses, a convention center and plans for a 19-story luxury hotel, amenities at Finger Lakes will be limited.

“We’ll have a good, first-class room with great food offerings and a great sports bar, but you’ll never see the golf courses or the hotels because our cut (from VLT revenue) isn’t big enough,” Riegle said.

Riegle says he can still entice customers to come out and play games they know from Atlantic City and Las Vegas casinos, such as Red, White and Blue, Blazing 7’s, Double Diamond and Lobster Mania.

“We’re a food and beverage company primarily, so we’re good at food,” said Riegle, whose parent company, Delaware North, opened the state’s first racino at Saratoga Raceway on Jan. 27. “Food and drink are critical to the atmosphere.”

Riegle has one big fear about the VLTs: that Pataki has gone too far in proposing up to eight new VLT casinos. When VLTs were first approved two years ago, they were meant for racetracks only. Some business leaders in Rochester favor a downtown casino, which would create intense competition for Finger Lakes.

“We worked with the state Legislature for 2½ years to get this project going and we think it’s bad policy to expand the market before we see how these do,” Riegle said.

For now, Finger Lakes has exclusivity in the region. Batavia Downs plans to open its racino later this year. But there’s nothing between Turning Stone and Seneca Niagara Casino on the United States’ side of Niagara Falls.

Let the games begin.

KEVINO@DemocratandChronicle.com


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-24-2004 02:18 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Bobby Hendiggidy wrote:
As for me, I have no tattoos or piercings.

OMG WTF is wrong w/ u? u r a feak!

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-24-2004 03:45 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What is a feak?

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-24-2004 04:12 PM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
Bobby said and Joe quoted:
quote:
As for me, I have no tattoos or piercings.
I don't have any either.

>>> Phil

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Jason Burroughs
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Allen, TX
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-24-2004 04:16 PM      Profile for Jason Burroughs   Email Jason Burroughs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Regarding alcohol laws in Texas they get pretty wierd. Some areas are "wet" some areas are "dry" those areas vary from area to area within the same county and within the same CITY even. And even if the area is "dry" you could possibly still get alcohol (mostly in restaurants) provided they are a "private membership" establishment, which to join all you need is a driver's licence.

Liquor can be bought in the wet areas until 12 midnight, even though bars can sell until close to 2. And the Liquor stores can't even be open on Sundays, however stores that are just beer and wine, can be open on Sundays (so much for getting loaded and THEN going to church [Big Grin] )

Granted we don't have to deal with the 3.2 beer, but geeze!

Sex toys are illegal to sell (but adult novelties are not) HUH? they're the same thing, just can't call them sex toys. Also they can't be TOO realistic [Confused]

Also its illegal to own more than 6 (I belive) Adult Novelties (since we can't call them sex toys). And yes these laws are enforced (if selectively). A woman in Burleson was recently arrested for owning too many sex toys opps I mean adult novelties.

Politicians and the laws they make are just plain STUPID.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 02-26-2004 10:06 AM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Beware, Oklahomans! Massachusetts recently allowed tattooing, and, as current events prove, that state has went to hell in a handbasket!

[Razz]

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Dan Lyons
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 698
From: Seal Beach, CA
Registered: Sep 2002


 - posted 02-26-2004 01:16 PM      Profile for Dan Lyons   Email Dan Lyons   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Laws against porn, toys, booze,and tattoos?? [puke]

You guys NEED to move. Any state that won't let you have control of your own body is pretty screwed up. Give your politicians a call and tell them to [sex] themselves.

Danny

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-26-2004 03:10 PM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
...sex toys. Also they can't be TOO realistic.
Kinda makes ya wonder who would be on that panel of judges? They must have a "private(s)" collection of toys for reference.

"Whadda think about this one, Martha? Too big?"

quote:
...its illegal to own more than 6 (I belive) Adult Novelties...
How can they prove that? I can see the headlines now: "Man convicted for selling fake Adult Novelty ID tags. Serves time in B&D dungeon for the Very, Very, Nervous."

>>> Phil

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 02-26-2004 04:41 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Move to Nevada--we do both casinos and tattoos much better (the Palms Hotel and Casino is the first casino to have a tattoo parlour (Hart & Huntington Tattoo Company) on site). And "houses of ill repute" are legal (and regulated, inspected, and taxed) in 10 out of 17 counties here. No asinine liquor laws either--you can buy anything you like any time you like in a supermarket or 7-11 here. And we're trying again to make possession of marijuana (up to an ounce) for personal use legal again (as it was back in the '30's). Oh, and no state income tax here. No inventory tax for businesses either.

It's no paradise living here though--we have the highest population turnover rate (new phone books every six months) and the highest suicide rates in the country. So not much of a sense of community here. Everybody minds their own business--a favorite local pastime is to stand around and watch others suffer and struggle with things. Wages are low, there's lot's of Walmart's around, and your first summer here will either make you or break you.

But if you're one of them there "rugged individualist" types, this is the place to be. We're probably the least regulated, least legislated (state legislature only meets part-time every other year), and least taxed state in the union. Concealed weapons permits are available to anyone for the asking (as long as you can qualify on a shooting range and you're not an ex-felon). The spirit of the wild west still lives on here.

Now we just have to do something about the worst drought in recorded history going into its fifth year here. And we're continuing to fight the good fight to keep the rest of America from sending their high-level nuclear waste here for long-term (10,000 years) storage at Yucca Mountain, just 90 miles up the US-95 from here.

Nevada--where the men are men, and the sheep are nervous! [Big Grin]

[ 11-18-2005, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: Paul Mayer ]

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 02-26-2004 07:34 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yep, Vegas is cool! I finally got to visit a few months ago (well, actually just drove through in the Freightliner with a load going to L.A...), I would dig living there!

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-26-2004 08:01 PM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Nevada--where men are men, and sheep are nervous!
What? I thought that was Texas... No wait! That's where there are steers and there are q....s [Razz]

Tim: I'm pissed at you! You got out this way and didn't let me know so we could visit! What an ass!

>>> Phil

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