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Topic: How do you like your Music served?

Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-06-2004 03:23 PM

Reel to Reel
8-Track Tape
Audio Cassette
Vinyl
CD
Mini Disc
Super Audio CD
DTS Audio
MP3
MP3 on CD
Other Digital Files
Sirius Satellite
XM Satellite
Brain Implant

I'm still stuck on CD. I wish I were into MP3 and had all my music on a server that would link to my car and home. But I'm not into ripping or purchasing my music again. I have Sirius in my car and that is where I listen to most music these days.

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Brian Michael Weidemann
Expert cat molester

Posts: 944
From: Costa Mesa, CA United States
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-06-2004 04:25 PM

I'm all for CD! There's nothing like adding to a legitimate, legally obtained, store-bought music collection. I'm up to 400 now (more impressive than most, not as impressive as some).

I'll take CD's and rip them to .mp3 just so I can have shuffled background music while on the computer, and occasionally burn compilations for my car CD player. I'm thinking about one of those little mp3 players (nothing fancy like iPod, though), but nothing more than that.

I still believe in CD's, perhaps since that's the format I grew up with. Long live the 5" shiny, silver, circle thing!

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 03-06-2004 04:47 PM

Still mostly CD here too--about 900 or so. Still have a handful of LPs and cassettes too. Haven't listened to any of those in a long long time, even though I still have some very expensive playback equipment with which to do so.

Reel-to-reel and later delta-modulation digital recorders were sold off years ago. Never got into L-cassette, minidisc, DAT, R-DAT, ADAT, or egads, 8-track! [Razz]

Am not into MP3's at all, though I suppose one of these days I will be--I admit the idea of MP3 on a portable disc or memory player sounds appealing. Don't plan on getting into SACDs or DVDAs unless I'm forced to. Sirius and XM Radio too will have to wait until I can afford a car again.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-06-2004 04:53 PM

These are my prefrences for listening to music......

Live!

I always prefer it live and am fortunate enough to live in a place where I can hear all types live music on a fairly regular basis. The Utah Symphony is awsome to hear live and we have many other night clubs here that have a wide variety of live stuff. A regular meal of live music also gives one a very good refrence as to how good,or bad, audio sound reproduction can be these days.....

Reel to Reel analog:
Studer A-80, Nagra 4S or Technics RS-1500 series only! Nothing else qualifies as Reel to Reel, this is as good as it gets!

Good SACD and DVD-A:
Either the Sony SCD-1 or the less expensive SCD-777ES is as good as this gets. The Pioneer DV-45 would be third.
Ya have to be careful here as there are more crap SACD's and DVD-A's than good! The manufacturers were in a rush to get software on the shelves. Fortunately there are some real knock out SACDs appearing these days that sound as good or better than the master tapes they come from.

Vinyl...:
I won't even touch this even though I just came home from my local used vinyl store......

After these listening meduims its just background music to me and it doesn't really matter much what the source is...

While we're at it as for playback equipment other than the above listed items would be....

Any Dynaudio Speaker System, any Pass Labs Aleph or XA series electronics, or older Krell electronics such as the KSA-50, 80, or 100.

These days I build all my own electronics, mainly based on Pass Labs designs, both the Alephs and the XA series. But I build mine with even higher grade components and get far superior performance than the factory equipment. Tubes suck!

Mark

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-06-2004 04:58 PM

When I buy pre-recorded music, I want at the very least a "Red Book" standard CD with uncompressed Linear PCM 2.0 audio. Don't ask me to pay for lossy, degraded, low quality, torture compressed MP3 or AAC files. I'm not paying for something only equal to radio quality that is being touted as CD quality. Bullshit.
[fu]

A special DTS 5.1 CD is pretty cool, but I usually want to have the original 2.0 LCPM mix as well. LCPM 2.0 is important for portability so I can play it in my pickup truck's CD player or take it to work and listen to it on a bookshelf system.

It really surprises me how the music industry has gotten so paranoid over the MP3 thing and people trading compromised, degraded, not-near-master-quality MP3 files. If the morons would bother to point out to customers how a music CD is superior in quality to stuff you download off the Internet then maybe that might help.

Of course the other thing is putting more value in the CDs themselves, that way the upwards of $20 price tag can be justified. I haven't gotten into the DVD-A or Super Audio CD thing at this point because I don't like the paltry amount of titles being made available in the formats. And the hardware is still not quite to the arrangement I want. I want full digital interconnectivity between the players and receivers for the high bandwidth audio signals. I'm not paying extra just to send analog 5.1 line outs from a player with no bass management. Screw that.

Music CDs cost around the same as many new DVDs. So the value needs to be about the same if the price is going to be about the same. Include bonus DVD discs with music video content or some other stuff. I remember when 12" vinyl LPs were popular in the 1970s. It was common to get some posters and other cool stuff in them. Make the product worth buying instead of downloading.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-06-2004 05:55 PM

I prefer the convenience of dealing with MP3 and AAC via iTunes and iPod. I still buy CD's occasionally but I buy most of my new music from the Apple iTunes store (AAC Format).

Large-capacity hard drives have come down significantly in price, so I will soon be re-ripping all of my CD's for AAC and a higher (and constant) bit rate. I tried Variable Bit Rate (VBR) but this causes volume shifts from one song to another. A constant bit rate for all songs - especially on the same album - is the way to go.

I toyed with the idea of getting XM for the car but iPod hasn't let me down yet. Only trouble is that it can't expose me to anything I haven't heard so I just might get XM one o' these days.

Having all of my music on a computer has made the music more accessible to me. No more hunting down a CD just to hear one song. No more CDs to put away after playing DJ. Playlists are forever (if you want them to be). I'm listening to more of my music now, too - instead of the same 5 CD's over and over.

On a few songs - mostly classical - I was able to "hear" the compression. I simply re-ripped those till they sounded good. Compressed music via MP3 or AAC sounds just fine to me. I'm not going to get into an argument over this but I can't think of anything I'd be listening to (at home or in the car) that's "too special to be compressed."

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Gunnar Johansson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 181
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 03-06-2004 06:35 PM

I agree with Mark: Live and I´d like to add Loud.

Being an sound engineer I get to see a lot of bands live, and I get to mix some, and when you control it all is when it´s the best, but that is not serving it to me, as much as serving it to others.
Loud within limits of recommendation and what my ears (and amps) can stand...

Other than that my primary source is MP3, which works. My equipment isn´t good enough to make the difference with most qualities of MP3, meaning it´s not the mp3, it´s my sound system that sounds like crap, if and when it does.
CD´s are around, and my portable player is still a CD player, and some of my favourite songs still feels best played on CD.
Some vinyl but that get´s played very rarely...

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 03-06-2004 06:40 PM

MiniDiscs, because they are easily portable. I can play them in my car or listen to them while I am lying in bed. I prefer to have the music on original CD and then copy the tracks I like to Minidisc. Very rarely is there a CD which I like ALL of the tracks. Also very rare is the CD that is sold in the USA that I like. Most of my music is actually imported from Japan. If I were to get a hard disc music player, it most certainly wouldn't be an iPod. Just because I like Macs doesn't mean I have to like iPods. iPods suck ass. They can't record via a digital input (optical or "coaxial" RCA), they have some messed up some management crap that attempts to arrange stuff whenever it is connected to your computer, and they just look wimpy.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 03-06-2004 06:54 PM

CDs. And very ironic that CDs are now regarded as the "gold standard" for music reproduction (SACD etc. are non-starters so far). MP3 and any other format that uses compression can kiss my ass -- I want NOTHING to do with it. [fu]

Anyone know what FM radio stations are using these days? To me it often sounds like they're playing lossy MP3s or something other than CD-quality. [Frown]

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-06-2004 06:54 PM

Wire recorder for me. [Big Grin]

(how many of you have ever seen an audio wire recorder?) I am presently mainly into CD and DAT. I must say, though, that the newer pre-recorded CD's are CRAP! They are recorded WAY too hot, and are very distorted. I have bought several of the SACD hybrids, that have two layers, SACD and CD, so they can be played on a normal CD player (I do not have a SACD player, yet). I am also still using a format that records digital audio as video, onto a VHS tape. Every few years I make a 6 hour long compilation using a mixer, two CD players, turntable, reel to reel deck, and a DAT as sources. I can put one of these 6 hour tapes on while I'm working around the house, and just let it play. I have an FM stereo transmitter being feed by my main system, so that I can tune it in all over the house, and even use a walkman outside.

Every so often I like to go back into my reel to reel tape library and pick out some things that I have not listened to in a long time.

For traveling by air, I was using a portable DAT, using the 90 meter tapes, and the half speed mode I could put 6 hours on a tape, but since 9-11 airport security is not used to seeing these things, and the gell-cell that I brought with it (it drawes a lot of current) would drive the security flakes nuts. So I got a portable MP3 CD player. At a 256K data rate it doesn't sound too bad on a noisy airplane, and I can put 6 hours of audio on a 700 meg disc.

I think that I will always like reel to reel, for the same reason that I like 35MM film; holding a reel of it in your hands, and working with the media itself.

And by the way, I still have a quad 8 track RECORDER somewhere, as well as quad reel to reels, and CD-4 records.

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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 03-06-2004 07:43 PM

I am in a position to listen to music in various formats. The system in use most of the time is CDs and I have a large collection of about 800. I had a lot more but sold them because of the lack of storage space. Part of my CD collection also includes about 20 that are in DTS. The next favorite format I enjoy is DAT. I got into DAT when the format was introduced and have several pre recorded tapes in my collection but most of the ones I play were one's I recorded from CD's. Next is the minidiscs. I love the format because of it's portability. One of the player I have fits nicely in my pocket when I use it at the gym.

With the exception of the minidisc which I always use when I work out, the CD system is the format I use the most when I drive and travel on planes and bus. There would be times when I would also listen to DAT tapes when I travel but the portable player I have is a bit bulky so I usually take my CD player with me. I have a great CD system in my car that sounds wonderful but the only regret I have is the inability to enjoy it during nice long drives because most of my driving is not long distance.

Although I still have most of my long playing record collection which totals almost 2000 and a Thorens TD160 BC MKII with a Shure SME Arm. I do not listen to my Lps anymore.

I do have some music DVDs that are mostly complete operas and symphonic concerts and they sound great in my home theatre in DTS and Dolby 5.1

-Claude

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 03-06-2004 07:44 PM

quote:
Anyone know what FM radio stations are using these days? To me it often sounds like they're playing lossy MP3s or something other than CD-quality.

I know of a few stations that are using 320kbps MP3s, but I think the real problem is the compression they use (and have always used) is (now) recompressing an already severely compressed audio source -- today's CDs.

Graph from "Pump up the Volume" Wired 12.01 page 48:

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Rachel Craven
Madam Moderator

Posts: 2190
From: Pensacola, FL
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 03-06-2004 08:45 PM

Usually I just listen to CD's its easiest for me, and I grew up on them! I have an MP3/CD player in my car so I have one CD with 176 MP3s on it that a friend made for me, other then that just the radio or live...going to see John Mayer on March 28th!!! [Smile]

He's such a hottie...oh, wrong thread... So sorry.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-06-2004 08:49 PM

Pretty interesting graph there, Daryl. It's no wonder why AC/DC's "Back in Black" sounds better than any new rock and roll these days.

Of course some engineers have been mixing music too hot for a long time. I grabbed my MFSL Ultradisc II version of "Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon" for the this text in the liner notes:

quote:
Volume Levels
In any digital recording medium there is an absolute limit to the maximum level that can be encoded. Any peak exceeding that level results in distorsion. In the analog to digital conversion process the levels must be set so that the highest peak in the programme is near to, but does not exceed the maximum allowable level.

In a programme with a wide dynamic range, the peaks are higher with respect to the average level, than in one with a lesser dynamic range. Therefore, the average level of a programme with a wide dynamic range must be lower than that of a programme with a narrow dynamic range, in order to avoid distorsion. Limiting the peaks, compressing the overall signal, or allowing the highest peaks to distort, are methods of increasing the average programme levels on a CD of music with wide dynamic range.

None of these methods are acceptable by Mobile Fidelity standards. We believe that the best sonic quality is achieved by encoding material at the required lower level.

The mastering integrity produces the warm, velvety, detailed sonics which, when coupled with 24K gold, result in the ultimate audio experience.

That kind of thing (along with listening carefully to the product) really sold me on those gold Ultradisc releases. The damned things were actually mastered correctly. Too bad you basically had to pay double to get the freaking job done right. But then that has become the American way: make doing the job right a luxury and doing just barely good enough to get by the new standard.

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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 03-06-2004 09:07 PM

I, like Manny, use iTunes and iPod on a regular basis. If it's a band or artist i really like (Ben Folds for instance [thumbsup]

) I go and buy the cd so I can enjoy the higher quality audio. If its a single from a band I don't have any loyalty to, I'll download it. Im not going to spend the time critically listening to whatever the radio station is pushing right now anyway.

All my cd's pre october '03 are ripped at 320kbps MP3
Post october - 256kbps AAC
Music downloaded legally from iTunes is 128 AAC
My minimum requirement for music obtained from "other sources" [evil]

is 256 mp3.

At time of post: 1650 tracks
ripped from:
--49 full legitamate store-bought cd's (keep in mind that I haven't ripped every cd I own)
--59 single tracks legally purchased from iTunes
--11 public domain tracks (useful for non-sync when disney tells us we can't run the 2wenty)
--Remainder obtained from "Other Sources" between 1997 and 2003.

BTW - can anyone else see "stupid javascript" in the upper left, or is that Daryl trying to tell me something about my browser?

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