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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Kidman in BIRTH: inappropriate scenes with 10 year old boy (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Kidman in BIRTH: inappropriate scenes with 10 year old boy
Pravin Ratnam
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 844
From: Atlanta, GA,USA
Registered: Sep 2002


 - posted 06-14-2004 07:31 PM      Profile for Pravin Ratnam   Email Pravin Ratnam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004271117,00.html

NICOLE Kidman has sparked outrage with her new film in which she gets passionate in the bath with a ten-year-old boy.

The shocking movie Birth will feature bizarre scenes of her nude and getting romantic with an underage lad she believes is the reincarnation of her dead husband.

But horrified executives may have to pull the plug on the £30million production after seeing the final version of the movie, according to a US magazine.

The weird flick sees Kidman playing a widow, and two scenes have got New Line Cinema hot under the collar. Kidman and the boy strip off together to submerge in bubbles and then they even lock lips.

Insiders say the film has been plagued by constant creative battles and rewrites. Now angry executives have protested to producers that the bath and kissing scenes are “borderline disgusting” to watch.

And the PR companies who are supposed to be promoting the film are calling it “a publicity nightmare,” reports The National Enquirer.

END OF NEWS ITEM FROM THE SUN.

My take:
I heard about this on the morning radio stations and I even checked imdb forums. I am still shocked that a hollywood director would be this stupid to film this. I am not a stiff prude as people can tell by my previous posts. But there is a line that people should draw. I heard about Tin Drum and from a magazine article I read, that was edited together well to prevent the actors from engaging in anything seriously inappropriate. Even for Lolita, they upped the age of the actress, because the novel had a younger age for the character. Plus they used body doubles for Swain.

For scenes like this, even the 13-15 age range will have most people uncomfortable. But for a 10 year old?? I think one should draw the line. I haven't seen the scene. But it would have been very easy to make the same point without having the kid in that scene to such a degree. All they had to do was show Kidman taking off her clothes in one angle, and then show her getting into the bathtub without showing the boy's face. Then they could do a fadeaway from the boy's point of view showing only Kidman's face approaching the camera to make out. That in itself would make quite a few people uncomfortable, but would at least not have the audience worried about whether the child actor was mde to be part of the scene. If anything, i think it detracts from the narrative because no matter what people say along the lines of "Hey it's only a movie , and not real life" , one can't avoid thinking "Hey , but the kid was in the bathtub making out with a naked Kidman in real life, even if it was for a shoot."

Then you will have people who will say "hey , if you were that boy , wouldnt' you have wanted to be doing that with Kidman". My view is this "hey maybe if he was at least 13 or 14." Yeah kids are maturing faster lately, but 10 is still 10 in any era. I think the parents should have put their foot down and not given permission for the scene. Then again, I thought scenes were needlessly explicit for Pretty Baby.

I don't know. I haven't seen any angry denials yet. So it makes me think the article is fairly accurate. I would actually be interested in audience reactions when this movie comes out.

[ 06-16-2004, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Pravin Ratnam ]

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Bill Enos
Film God

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From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
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 - posted 06-15-2004 12:29 AM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you believe anything you read in the Sun or the Enquirer, I've got a nice house in D.C. at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave to sell you.

Nicole can get inappropriate with me anytime.

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Dan Lyons
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Seal Beach, CA
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 - posted 06-15-2004 12:35 AM      Profile for Dan Lyons   Email Dan Lyons   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dunno whether or not that story is true, but.....
IT'S ACTING! WHO CARES!

danny

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Rachel Craven
Madam Moderator

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From: Pensacola, FL
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 06-15-2004 07:26 AM      Profile for Rachel Craven   Email Rachel Craven   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with Dan.

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Paul Konen
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From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-15-2004 08:40 AM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Probably one of the only good things about The Sun is Page 3 [Big Grin]

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Pravin Ratnam
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 844
From: Atlanta, GA,USA
Registered: Sep 2002


 - posted 06-15-2004 09:40 AM      Profile for Pravin Ratnam   Email Pravin Ratnam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
IT'S ACTING! WHO CARES!
I see it more as "it's moviemaking". Use your editing tricks to actually have Kidman act like she is really in front of a kid who she thinks is her husband reincarnated. What is the acting involved if you really have to make it explicitly visualized for the audience. If they were adults, it would be different. If it was a book, that's different. When Linda Blair was in Exorcist, they actually tried to shield her from some of the subject matter used(yeah I know that's hard to believe , considering some of the stuff she did in the years subsequent to that movie). Another difference is the child actor is not some older kid playing a character younger than he really is. The actor is actually 10. Try releasing this in your theater and tell me later that no one will care.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-15-2004 02:43 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Pravin, forum policy states you must paste the text of the newslink in your post. This thread will be deleted if you do not do so.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

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From: Chicago, IL, USA
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 - posted 06-15-2004 08:01 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is it just me or do other people enjoy it when others get offended about things that do not directly affect them?

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Rachel Craven
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 - posted 06-15-2004 10:37 PM      Profile for Rachel Craven   Email Rachel Craven   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's not just you. [Big Grin]

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Pravin Ratnam
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Atlanta, GA,USA
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 - posted 06-16-2004 01:56 PM      Profile for Pravin Ratnam   Email Pravin Ratnam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, it's not like I am not going to waste a bunch of time organizing a boycott or anything similar of this movie. I just found the story hard to believe and lay my thoughts out. It's a Film Yak forum and this thread is movie related. Wasn't trying to stop a filmmaker from making a movie about certain subject matter. Just suggested alternative ways to handle the same matter.

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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

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From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
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 - posted 06-17-2004 12:14 AM      Profile for Dave Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Apparently the story is true, and I will definately be lining up to see this film. I have a thing for naked nicole kidman, and 10 year old boys. [Eek!]

Ciao [evil]

Dave

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Greg Anderson
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From: Ogden Valley, Utah
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 - posted 06-19-2004 10:11 AM      Profile for Greg Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Okay... I'm not going to be politically correct about this.

[Assuming the story at the top of this thread is true.]

Tell me that anyone here wouldn't be "affected" for the rest of their life if they took a bath with Nicole Kidman and made out with her... even if they knew it was only a one-time affair and it was only "acting." Now imagine you're a ten-year-old kid and you understand even less about sexuality. These are the kinds of things which mess up anybody's head. Would you let your ten-year-old kid be a part of something like this? And, if you did, and he had emotional problems down the road, would you not question your wisdom down the road?

As for this notion of brushing it off just because it doesn't directly affect us... I don't know. Whenever there's a murder on the west side of town I usually think "I hope it's drug-related. Then I know it'll never affect me." But, before you know it, a guy like me (or a child) gets caught in the crossfire and I wonder if there's anything I should be doing or if I should continue to live in my little bubble where everything's okay. (How much did you pay attention to stories of suicide bombers in Israel before September 2001?)

They have laws about involving children in pornography. They have laws about anyone even looking at this kind of stuff! So why is it so different just because Nicole Kidman is involved?

[/Assuming the story at the top of this thread is true.]

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Steve Kraus
Film God

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 - posted 06-19-2004 12:50 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First of all, pretending that this was a real event for a moment, I am not convinced that the boy would be scarred for life. There is a vast gulf of a difference between consenting activity and someone being preyed upon. Yes, I'm aware of "age of consent" issues but that is a legal definition and is designed to protect the weakest not necessarily the average. I think if you read on the topic you will find that most experts agree even the very young have a pretty good sense of what they want or don't want to do and ability and willingness to express it. There is a growing school of thought that our society's new insistance to try to deny the fact that people become sexual beings gradually not just overnight on their 16th, 17th, or 18th birthday, is actually detrimental. By that I mean like when a couple of little kids are caught "playing doctor" what would have been dealt with in the past with some helpful discussion nowadays they might rush a kid off into a sex offender program, treating him as a criminal. A good read on this topic, controversial when it came out, is Harmful to Minors: The Perils of Protecting Children from Sex
by Judith Levine.

But...

...this isn't a real situation. It's a film set, on a soundstage, with a crew around. As such the potential for any sort of mind warping is, I think, minimal.

Unless of course someone is talking about being offended by the fictional situation in which case, too bad. It's fiction and we're only concerned with real harm to real kids (if any) not fictional harm to fictional kids.

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
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 - posted 06-19-2004 12:58 PM      Profile for Greg Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Now, read this entire thread over again and every time you see the name Nicole Kidman, substitute any of the following names:

Britney Spears
Drew Barrymore
Demi Moore
Michael Moore
Michael Jackson
Senator Hillary Clinton
Oprah
Rosie O'Donnell
or
Joe Redi-- I mean, Greg Anderson

Now I find it all very disturbing.

Steve... I'll pretend to hold judgment for now and then, perhaps 10 or 15 years from now, we'll just try to find this kid and see what happened to him. But, I'm curious. You seem to have studied "underage sex" issues a lot (!) and have decided it's not so bad. I, on the other hand, have an older brother who's a cop and was specifically assigned to child and/or sex abuse cases for a few years. I can't see much room for tolerance.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

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From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-19-2004 02:09 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I study a lot of things a lot. Go over to trainorders.com and see my lengthy discussion of steam heat & steam-jet air conditioning of passenger trains before head end (electric) power. One of my favorite inexplicably very narrow sub-interests under the broader category of being a train buff.

As for your list, why should I want to imagine the kid in the tub making out with Michael Moore? It wasn't Michael Moore! It was Nicole Kidman, for God's sake! Nicole Kidman! Yeah it makes a difference! LOL (I'm NOT suggesting tolerance for abusers. They should get put away for a long, long time if not for life. I'm questioning what is or isn't abuse. Getting in a tub with Nicole on a film set with many people in attendance isn't IMHO.)

Edit: Extra comment added.

[ 06-19-2004, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Steve Kraus ]

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