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Author Topic: So, What would have happened if the South won the Civil War Aaron Mehocic Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 804 From: New Castle, PA, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-03-2004 08:54 PM                     Sometime in the early 1960's as part of the centennial celebration of the American Civil War, Life Magazine ran a feature article written in a style historians now refer to as "alternative history". This was a particular attempt to forecast what events might have happened if the South won the war and how that would have indeed changed the course of World History as well. I have searched over the magazine's website (realizing it ceased publication in 1999) and cannot access any information regarding this piece in their archives. I believe it was written in an April, 1961 edition but not positive. In those days the magazine was published weekly. Generally speaking, the article summarizes, that although the South was victorious, the horror of two World Wars and a common purpose in stopping Communism would have eventually caused a reunion of the nation sometime in the 1950's. If the article was written today, I'm sure terrorism would be the key issue in reunification. After all, it seems to be the flavor of the month now. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 08-04-2004 01:58 AM                        There was a series of documentaries on BBC radio - called something like What if?, I think, but it was a long time ago - which speculated what might have happened if key historical events had gone the other way. The English and American civil wars were covered, as was Harold kicking William's butt at Hastings, Napoleon winning Waterloo, Hitler winning WWII (surprise surprise) and Churchill winning the 1945 election. As far as I can remember, the American Civil War episode conculded that if the South had won, there probably wouldn't be a United States in the form it exists today, that there wouldn't have been any significant American involvement in either WWI or WWII. I've tried Googling for anything on these programmes, but can't find anything.  |  IP: Logged Chris Hipp Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1462 From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas) Registered: Jul 2003 posted 08-04-2004 03:46 AM                     Part of the southern way of life was to "live and let live" Therefore, I do not think that communism would have been any concern of "the United states." You also have to take into consideration if the confederacy would have settled with a mere secession or if it would have gone to an extreme and kept fighting the union and took over their land. There are too many "what if" scenarios that it really isn't even worth worrying about. Sure the world would be different if Hitler had won WWII but he most likely would have been overthrown shortly afterwards by his own staff. Besides he was dying from Parkinson's anyway, some think that this is why he decided to open the eastern front. but then what if something else had happened, I could go all day.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 08-04-2004 04:03 AM                        I agree. There is no point in such exercises. I tend to believe that history moves forward with a certain inevitability and that individual persons and events don't influence the larger developments too much. Maybe this or that war would have been a little longer or shorter. But on the whole, the world would be much the same as it is today. If the officers trying to kill Hitler would have succeeded, WWII would have been a little shorter, but that's about the only difference it would have made. Or maybe they would have tried to obtain armistice conditions from the Allies which these wouldn't have wanted to agree to, then the fighting would have continued, and the war might have been a little longer because these people were more competent than Hitler. I guess if the South had won, there would still have remained enough tensions to eventually start another civil war. I just wonder what the South would be called if they had permanently won, the Confederate States of America (CSA)? Or the Redneck States of America (RSA)?  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 08-04-2004 09:22 AM                     Michael: Being from CA via Germany, you might want to watch who you are calling a redneck. The South is no different from the North or the West or anything anymore. There are alot of low-paying jobs in the service industry here, because all the good jobs in factories have moved to Mexico. We just want to survive and enjoy life JUST LIKE ALL OF YOU! People seem to forget that before the war, slavery was also happening ABOVE the Mason-Dixon line. Lets just drop this topic, please. The South LOST. This is America now. The people that still fly the Confederate flag are few and far between. Oh, they are out there, but most of them just look like idiots. [ 08-04-2004, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Bruce McGee ]  |  IP: Logged Jeff Stricker Master Film Handler Posts: 481 From: Calumet, Mi USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 08-04-2004 10:15 AM                     Amen Bruce, it's a non issue. BTW, I'm hearing that quite a number of companies are moving work from Mexico to China! It's getting to expensive to manufacture in Mexico. Sad state of affairs. We need to fix things and get folks decent paying jobs they can be proud of and support their families.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-04-2004 11:36 AM                     Actually I would classify a Redneck more as a low life breed of person and that it is caused by genes. They can actually be found all over the World, not just here in the States. Being form a certain part of this country, poor or of a color other than white does not also mean that you are a Redneck, there are many very intelegent aspiring poor folk of all colors out there that will succeed some day. Most Rednecks I've seen are dumb, ignorant, and act childish all the time, few of any ever succeed at anything really constructive. They may have other names for them in other countries but if you put all of these people in one room they would all seem the same. Mark  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 08-04-2004 12:26 PM                        quote: Michael Schaffer If the officers trying to kill Hitler would have succeeded, WWII would have been a little shorter... Actually, would it? One possible scenario would have been the military professionals who replaced him pulling out of Russia (and possibly Africa as well) ASAP and throwing everything at the Western Front. Even if that had happened I think Germany would eventually have been defeated, because by then America was too deeply committed. But with the Nazi forces all concentrated against Britain and without the Russian Front sapping their resources, things could have gone on a lot longer and got a lot nastier.  |  IP: Logged Chris Hipp Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1462 From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas) Registered: Jul 2003 posted 08-04-2004 12:40 PM                     I doubt that. Considering the fact that some of the top Nazi's had already tried to make deals with the allies, I would bet that as soon as Hitler was gone they would have surrendered. I think they knew they were in deep doo doo. I do not remember off hand the exact structure or how the chain of command followed in Nazi Germany but I do know that Heinrich Himmler was not a leader and basically rode Hitler's coattails, he would not be able to take control of the war. Rommel didn't even know what was going on and as soon as he found out he would have probably resigned. I dont know enough about Eichmann or Goebles to say anything about them. Now Reinhard Heydrich, that is they guy I would be worried about.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 08-04-2004 02:53 PM                        I confess I'd have to read up on precisely how the Hitler assassination plot was formed, who was behind it and what their motivations are (I might pull Shirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich off the shelf before bed this evening - for all its journalistic style, as far as I'm aware it's factually accurate). If my memory hasn't totally seized up, Heydrich had been assassinated by then (1941, and the plot to kill Hitler was mid-43?) and Goering had long believed that Germany's air power had been spread far to thin thanks to the Russian and African front. Time for a bit of reading...  |  IP: Logged Robb Johnston Expert Film Handler Posts: 147 From: St. Louis Suburbs Registered: Nov 1999 posted 08-04-2004 07:38 PM                        I have read alot of the alternate histories, many dealing with the battle of Gettysburg and what would have happened had the CSA won that battle. of those I would reccomend Mark Nesbitt's work. The grand Daddy of all Civil War Alternate histories would be a series of books by Harry Turtledove that begins with "How few Remain." In that book it begins with a private recovering the General Order that in reality fell into US hands and allowed Union forces to block the 1862 march north at Antietam. With that march into PA successful, the war ended after the battle of Camp Hill. But that is just the prologue, they skip ahead 20 years to what we might call the 2nd Civil War, and from there he has produced 2 trilogies dealing with the fallout from that. For instance, IF England and France ahd backed the confederacy, then when WWI started the US might well have sided with Germany, and there would have been a huge American front to that war. In his books US/Germany won the great war, and as a result, the CSA gets plunged into financial chaos (instead of Germany) and the Hitler type person ends up coming into power in the CSA. With the latest book WWII is about to break out. The next volume is out sometime this month, and I eagerly await it. (My synopsis is very basic and summed up 7 novels so far in one or two paragraphs, check them out.)  |  IP: Logged David Favel Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 764 From: Ashburton, New Zealand Registered: Feb 2002 posted 08-04-2004 08:14 PM                     Then again, instead of laying Leningrad & Stalingrad to seige, would the Germans have had enough manpower to win the Kursk battle then concentrate energies on repelling Normandy landings?  |  IP: Logged Darren Crimmins Expert Film Handler Posts: 130 From: Dallas, TX, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 08-04-2004 11:34 PM                     As far as where the "rednecks" came from, this had alot to go with the financial destruction of the South during the infamous Reconstruction Period after the war. Before the war, the two seperate regions were not that much different economically, assuming you include slaves as part of the southern wealth. After the war when the remaining slaves were freed, the south had lost thier biggest currency, and the economy went downhill for years. The backlash is still seen today in some of the poorer southern states, and the "redneck" is somewhat a product of that. Now there were plenty of impoverished whites in the South, just like the North before the war, but it skyrocketed afterwards, and with whites competing more with the "inferior" blacks for jobs since the latter were freed, it created even more hatred, and more ignorance which is still seen today.  |  IP: Logged Michael Gonzalez Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 790 From: Grand Island , NE USA Registered: Sep 2000 posted 08-05-2004 12:13 AM                     The alternate history that I would worry about is what if Hitler had gotten ahold of the Holy Grail instead of Indy?  |  IP: Logged Chris Hipp Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1462 From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas) Registered: Jul 2003 posted 08-05-2004 02:53 AM                     Well, you are correct that Heydrich died in 42, I had to look that up. However, my point still remains, I do not think that anyone else could have carried on knowing what they were doing. Heydrich seemed to be in it on his own and not just under Hitler. That is why he is the only one that I would have worried about.  |  IP: Logged

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