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Author Topic: Share your worst electrical nightmare!
Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 08-05-2004 07:22 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Want to see how many of you can share some of your worst electrical mishaps/shocks/amazing stories. And also what is the highest voltage you've come into contact with? (Lamp igniters don't count.) Here's my list to start with:

Mishaps:

Exploding panels in old booths;
Rectifier which defined "fire" (total flameout, but it held to the end of the show!);
Projector motor (Christie) doing a slow burn (Held for about 3 days b-4 it let go);
Misc. tools damaged by "dead" circuits (ALWAYS ASSUME IT'S HOT!);
Lindsay-Fairbanks dimmer exploded;
Circuit breakers exploded, etc.

Shocks:

480v, 277v lighting (hurts a LOT);
DC hit from a rectifier (open circuit voltage);
The worst by far: 115v, 400 cycle aircraft power (I was thrown over 50 feet and had burns on my hand and right foot!)

Highest voltage with direct contact:

12,000 volts. Underground distribution voltage before being stepped down to 120/240 for homes. This was when I knew a motocrosser's dad on a PG&E line crew. Put on all the protective gear and touched a live pad switch lug. Even with the gloves, etc. on I could still feel the current! Freaky!

Here's a link to some cool electrical arcs/explosions:

http://205.243.100.155/frames/longarc.htm

Keep in mind after watching the videos in that link that at one time I was actually going to work for So Cal Edison! I changed my mind, not because of the electricity, but I'm afraid of heights! [Eek!]

 -

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-05-2004 10:17 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've accidentally brushed against electrical fences powered by cattle fence chargers. That'll make you feel like you've been hit in the back with a 2x4.

Our sign company was installing the main pylon sign for a Chick-Fil-A on Cache Road. Some of the people at the construction site wanted to lend a hand. This large flexible face sign was being lifted into the air. There were overhead power lines not too far away. Nothing was attached to the sign to ground it. One construction guy approached the sign as it was twisting on the crane cable. He wanted to steady it. He was told, "I wouldn't touch that if I were you." But he did. And he got whalloped pretty good by a static charge. Our install crew got a pretty good laugh out of that one.

Our neon plant has a tube bombarding setup which uses more voltage than what is required for an electric chair. I stay the hell away from that thing.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

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From: Northampton, PA
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 - posted 08-06-2004 02:01 AM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Mishaps: Exploding panels... Misc. tools damaged by "dead" circuits

Shocks: 480v, 277v lighting (hurts a LOT);
DC hit from a rectifier... 115v, 400 cycle aircraft power

Highest voltage with direct contact: 12,000 volts.

Doesn't sound like booth work has been your strong suit. The idea is to avoid getting bitten!
[Big Grin] [Razz] [Wink]

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 08-06-2004 06:09 AM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How much voltage do you actually need for an electric chair?

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-06-2004 06:18 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They normally run at 20,000 to 30,000 volts. We bombard neon with more than that.

Voltage ratings alone can seem misleading regarding the amount of power conducted. For instance, the third rail in the New York City subway system runs at 600 volts. But I don't know the level of amps in that rail. Obviously it is more than a standard 20 amp household circuit would provide.

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John Pytlak
Film God

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From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-06-2004 07:27 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's the CURRENT that kills, not the voltage. But higher voltages allow more current to flow through the resistance of the skin:

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/construction/electrical_incidents/eleccurrent.html

quote:
Three primary factors affect the severity of the shock a person receives when he or she is a part of an electrical circuit:
Amount of current flowing through the body (measured in amperes).
Path of the current through the body.
Length of time the body is in the circuit.
Other factors that may affect the severity of the shock are:
The voltage of the current.
The presence of moisture in the environment.
The phase of the heart cycle when the shock occurs.
The general health of the person prior to the shock.
Effects can range from a barely perceptible tingle to severe burns and immediate cardiac arrest. Although it is not known the exact injuries that result from any given amperage, the following table demonstrates this general relationship for a 60-cycle, hand-to-foot shock of one second's duration:

Current level
(in milliamperes) Probable effect on human body
1 mA Perception level. Slight tingling sensation. Still dangerous under certain conditions.
5 mA Slight shock felt; not painful but disturbing. Average individual can let go. However, strong involuntary reactions to shocks in this range may lead to injuries.
6-30 mA Painful shock, muscular control is lost. This is called the freezing current or "let-go" range.
50-150 mA Extreme pain, respiratory arrest, severe muscular contractions. Individual cannot let go. Death is possible.
1000-4300 mA Ventricular fibrillation (the rhythmic pumping action of the heart ceases.) Muscular contraction and nerve damage occur. Death is most likely.
10,000 mA Cardiac arrest, severe burns and probable death.

http://web.princeton.edu/sites/ehs/hazardcommguide/8.htm

quote:
The severity and effects of an electrical shock depend on a number of factors, such as the pathway through the body, the amount of current, the length of time of the exposure, and whether the skin is wet or dry. Water is a great conductor of electricity, allowing current to flow more easily in wet conditions and through wet skin. The effect of the shock may range from a slight tingle to severe burns to cardiac arrest. The chart below shows the general relationship between the degree of injury and amount of current for a 60-cycle hand-to-foot path of one second's duration of shock. While reading this chart, keep in mind that most electrical circuits can provide, under normal conditions, up to 20,000 milliamperes of current flow


Current Reaction
1 Milliampere Perception level
5 Milliamperes Slight shock felt; not painful but disturbing
6-30 Milliamperes Painful shock; "let-go" range
50-150 Milliamperes Extreme pain, respiratory arrest, severe muscular contraction
1000-4,300 Milliamperes Ventricular fibrillation
10,000+ Milliamperes Cardiac arrest, severe burns and probable death

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BPG/is_3_17/ai_84263250

quote:
ABSTRACT: Since clinical signs of underlying injury, especially skin appearance, may fail to indicate the severity of the actual injury from electrical current exposure, you must maintain a high index of suspicion for life-threatening injury. The major cause of death in patients with electrical injuries is cardiac dysrhythmia. In the emergency department, use cardiac monitoring for all patients with electrical injuries and, regardless of external signs of exposure, obtain an ECG. Emergent cardiac catheterization should be performed for a patient who has clinical signs of a myocardial infarction. Laboratory tests for patients with electrical burns should include creatine kinase levels, complete blood cell count, electrolyte levels, renal function tests, and urinalysis. Technetium 99m scans have been found to be very sensitive in identifying injured muscle. The goals of surgical management are to remove devitalized tissue, prevent infectious complications, and preserve as much tissue as possible. (J Crit Illnes s. 2002;17(3):94-100)



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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

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From: Hollywood, CA USA
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 - posted 08-06-2004 07:34 AM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
Electric chairs operate at about 2000 volts at around 7 or so amps for several seconds to a half a minute. Then the voltage is lowered to around 240 volts for a similar time period. The cycle is repeated a few times to insure the desired result or until the "subject" catches fire. AC is used of course since it's much more lethal than DC current.

Even the largest of neon signs operate at a current-limited maximum voltage of 15,000 and 60ma and is usually not lethal. The bombarding process to remove the impurities in the glass and electrodes is done at a much higher voltage and current and is deadly. It *IS* scary!

>>> Phil

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Randy Stankey
Film God

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From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-06-2004 11:05 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson

For instance, the third rail in the New York City subway system runs at 600 volts. But I don't know the level of amps in that rail.

Bobby,

I don't know how much current goes through the third rail, either. But there is one thing I can tell you for sure...

There's enough to push a train! [Big Grin]

Two of my worst electrical nightmares in the booth come from some idiot trying to replace diodes and getting them all mixed up. In both cases, the person literally put the new diodes in a pile and picked them randomly as they were installed. No attention was paid to whether they were "forward" or "reverse" diodes. In both cases, it led to a total meltdown of the recitfier.

In the CFS rectifier, the capacitors overheated and blew their guts all over the inside of the lamphouse and all of the wires fried themselves. Virtually the only things left intact were the heat sink/frame of the rectifier and the transformer. I had to strip out almost every other part and replace it with new. This includes the terminal blocks and the contactor. It was obvious that this rectifier had been abused this way before. Those CFS rectifiers may have their faults but they can take a lot of abuse before they shit the bed. This one had too much abuse and just died. There were several loose connections and overheated parts that were running on their last legs. When the brainstrust who put in the diodes turned the projector on after "fixing" it, the thing just went into "cascade failure" mode and melted down one piece at a time. I spent about 10 hours on a Saturday fixing that one.

After that, my boss gave me a portable Strong rectifier to keep on hand in case of a similar problem in another theater. The idea was simple: Just gut the old rectifier out of the lamphouse and connect the new one in its place, temporarily, until the replacement can be ordered.

It wasn't long after until some idiot did the same thing in a different theater. This time, on a Christie lamphouse. I don't know HOW the guy did it but he caught the thing on fire. I got the phone call from a frantic booth manager who didn't know what to do. I just told him to shut the machine down and shut off all the breakers to that machine. If the fire isn't too bad, it SHOULD burn itself out in a minute or two. I said, "If the fire doesn't go out in a minute or if it starts to spread outside the projector pull the fire alarm, evacuate the building and let the fire department take it from there.

Fortunately, it didn't get that far. The fire went out almost immediately after the machine was shut down. The whole main terminal board was fried beyond recognition but the rest of the rectifier was in good shape. I installed the portable rectifier and put in the order for replacement parts. (Why do these things always happen on a Saturday night?! [Confused] )

So a short time after that I got another call from the same theater who told me that the replacement rectifier had blown up! No! It wasn't the classic failure that the Strongs do by going up in smoke, etc. Somebody had fiddled with the thing like I specifically told them NOT to do. I told them, "Don't even TOUCH it!" Appearelty some goof ball touched it and shorted something out because the report that I got was that there was a loud popping noise and a big spark of electricity which "threw him against the wall."

I can guarantee that kid was tinkering when he was specifically told not to! I set things up in a specific way so as to avoid such problems but when I got there to fix it... AGAIN... things were in a different place than where I had left them.

What burns my ass is not that people make mistakes and mess things up but they continue to do these things even AFTER they have been specifically told HOW or how NOT to do things!

I still maintain that both of these incidents border on willful neglect and destruction of the equipment!

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 08-06-2004 12:26 PM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wouldn't say they "border". They are already deep in that territory. Apart from the destruction of hardware, people can get hurt seriously. Then they will go and sue the company or try to somehow profit from their "work accident".

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 08-06-2004 12:32 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Doesn't sound like booth work has been your strong suit. The idea is to avoid getting bitten!


Tim: Quite the contrary. (Had an English muffin this morning.) That was pretty much the full list of over 30 years working with electricity and 20-some in the booth. Most of the exploding panels, etc. didn't result in a shock. Just me getting super pissed off. The aircraft incident was a combination of bad cable, wet hands and failed contactor in a mobile generator. (One leg of the three-phase didn't open.)

A lot of panel incidents are the result of breaker/fuse failures or loose connections. I learned early on not to stand directly in front of any breaker or disconnect ("Bulldog") switch, especially when possibly closing into a fault. A good point to remember even when just working in a booth. Also, never look at the breaker/switch when operating it. An arc can cause permanent eye damage!

Always be careful around electricity!

Edited for spelling.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

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From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
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 - posted 08-06-2004 12:50 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know about the New York Subway trains, but on the former British Railways Southern Regiion lines, which use 750 Volts D.C., I know that some trains draw about 6000 Amps. The more modern ones, tend to draw more power than the older ones, and there's a major upgrading project underway at the moment, because in some areas the supply cannot cope with the new trains being introduced. There are some lines in Liverpool, and North London, which use the same system, but most of our electrified lines use 25kV 50 Hz single phase A.C. on overhead lines.

We used to have various other systems, 600-660 V D.C. third and fourth rails, still used on the London Underground, 1500V D.C, still used by a light rail system in Newcastle, 1200V D.C. side contact protected third rail, 6.25kV 50Hz. single phase A.C., and a couple of small systems with 6.something kV low frequency A.C. All of these are now extinct on the main line network. There's very little new electrification being done now, but almost everything in recent years has been 25 kV.

What Voltage are the N.J. Transit electrified lines between Newark and Trenton?

I was interested to see that the New York Subway had a few rotary converters still running until about five years ago. All of ours were taken out many decades ago, though some of the old substation buildings are still in use. I don't think we even have any mercury arc rectifiers in use now. We used to have both steel tanks, and glass bulbs, like giant versions of the ones that cinemas used to use. Some of these were about 1.5 metres high, usually with six anodes; very impressive things to see working.

Until recently, the London Underground still had it's own steam turbine powered power station, dual, oil and gas, fired since the early '70s. It must have been one of the last railways in the World to generate its own power. I managed to get a visit to the place a few months before it closed.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
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 - posted 08-06-2004 02:41 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I only know the 600v tidbit about the New York City subway trains because of the warning signs I saw posted in the trains and on subway platforms from my 5 years of riding.

I'm going to have to double check some of those scary pieces of trivia regarding the electricity in our neon plant, like the amount of volts, wattage, amps used by the bombardment system.

We have a couple color LED message centers in our shop right now, waiting to be installed on a couple bank signs. I wouldn't figure those things using a lot of power. But it turns out each double sided message center requires 38 amps. Jeez.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

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From: Northampton, PA
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 - posted 08-06-2004 03:10 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
Tim: Quite the contrary. That was pretty much the full list of over 30 years working with electricity and 20-some in the booth.
Yeah, I know, I's just teasin' ya. [Wink] Sounds like we've got similar backgrounds. [Smile]

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Matthew Bailey
Master Film Handler

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From: Port Arthur,TX
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 - posted 08-06-2004 07:15 PM      Profile for Matthew Bailey   Email Matthew Bailey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had several 120 volt hits during my childhood years& aldo probably during those years a 20 kilovolt hit fom a TV vacuum tube rectifier.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
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 - posted 08-06-2004 09:46 PM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That explains the picture.

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