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Author Topic: Laptop PC Recommendations? Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-02-2004 04:25 PM                     I need some help. I'm currently shopping around for a good WindowsXP Professional based notebook computer. But I'm not quite satisfied with many of the offerings out there. Some have great battery life, but low graphics capabilities and low rez screens. Others have brute power, but are more heavy and have shitty battery life. It's pretty difficult to find the happy medium (also without spending a small fortune). The purpose for this notebook PC would be sharing graphics chores with my desktop PCs at home and work. It will be running the same applications -and more importantly working on the same files, using the same fonts, etc. While Apple's notebooks are really nice, they're not a practical option. After eight hours of sitting in front of one desktop computer at work, it would be nice to be able to do additional computer work at home away from another computer desk or even out of the house. Currently I'm leaning toward something like the Dell Inspiron 8600 with a Intel low-voltage Centrino CPU. The battery conserving features are interesting. But how does a 1.6GHz or 1.8GHz Centrino with 2MB of L2 cache compare in performance with the 2.8GHz Pentium IV CPUs in other notebooks? In battery mode, the Centrino can drop the clock speed down to as little as 600MHz. That kind of scares me a bit. With the performance overhead required by WinXP alone, I don't want to spend $2000+ on a laptop PC that turns out to be pitifully slow. Also, what is the forecast for hardware fixing to be released? There's not much news on laptop processor and graphics chipsets that may or may not be released in the fall. I've heard rumblings about laptops featuring DDR2 memory, PCI-X and DirectX9 video cards. But what's the time table?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-02-2004 04:45 PM                     The Dell stuff is a good option and you get good bang for the buck from them, but build quality suffers. As a bonus there is a ton of Dell parts and stuff available on E-Bay at alot cheper pricing than from Dell. I bought a used Lattitude Notebook from another Film Techer a few months back and its runs pretty fast even though its only a 500 mhz P-3 and it is VERY stable with XP Pro. All in all I only spent 500 bucks on my use dmachine and am very happy with its performance and weight/performance/battery life. If you do get a Dell you may not like how hot they get on the bottom but there is a program called Fangui that you can download for free on the net. Works to some extent on all Dells but it gives you total control over the internal fans and sensors in the laptop. It even has the Jet Engine speed available for the fan!! Another suggestion is to build your own from parts!! This is possible to do with laptops. Mark @ CLACO Live On Vacation!! (But vacation times a runnin out)  |  IP: Logged David Buckley Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 525 From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand Registered: Aug 2004 posted 10-02-2004 06:10 PM                        quote: Bobby Henderson But I'm not quite satisfied with many of the offerings out there. Some have great battery life, but low graphics capabilities and low rez screens. Others have brute power, but are more heavy and have shitty battery life. It's pretty difficult to find the happy medium (also without spending a small fortune). This is not an accident. A few years ago, all laptops were expensive. Then the laptop makers of the world discovered that many laptops spend almost their entire lives plugged into the mains, rather than being used on batteries. Many of them sitting on executives desks. Therefore they could build a more powerful package (CPU, graphics etc), using less power-efficient components for less money. And as you have noticed, these machines dont have great battery life. I've got what was, when I bought it, the cheapest laptop money could buy, an IBM thinkpad R31 something or other. It fits the above description perfectly. Its only 1.2GHz (I think) with 512mb of ram, upgraded from 128mb, again if memory serves. It lives on my desk in its base station, or somewhere else on its mains powerpack. It probably spends less than two hours a month on batteries. The true leading-edge laptops are expensive, as they have more expensive technology in them. These machines are designed for the ultimate road warriors, those that spend all their time off the desk. And who have infinite budgets. These are the machines with the most modern, expensive, power efficient components. You are unlikely to find a truly great compromise machine at a sensible price, as the manufacturers have determined that there is no market for them. When you find one, let us know :-)  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-02-2004 06:50 PM                     My Aunt Patricia recently bought a Compaq Presario R3000 series laptop for around $1500. It seemed like a good deal for her since her needs are mainly for desktop use. But the battery life was pretty low, maybe 90 minutes tops. Results are similar across the board for PentiumIV based laptops. Dell's InspironXPS machine has awesome power for a laptop, but its battery life is really bad. But then that would figure if you have a notebook boasting a 256MB ATI Radeon9800 card and 3.4GHz PentiumIV. I'd like to get at least 2 or 3 hours of battery life out of a notebook computer. The display is another thing. I need at least WSXGA+ resolution (1680 X 1050) or WUXGA (1920 X 1200). That tends to narrow my choices on laptop make down between HP/Compaq or Dell. I don't know of any other companies that offer similar high-rez wide aspect ratio screens. Given the nature of graphics apps and all their menus, etc., it is wholly counterproductive to try to do work at common laptop settings of 1024 X 768. Other items I want include at least a 128MB video card and 1GB of DDR memory. I've searched around for used laptops a bit, as well as scanning the refurbished offerings from Dell's site. I haven't been able to find anything used out there that will be acceptable.  |  IP: Logged Adam Wilbert Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 590 From: Bellingham, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002 posted 10-02-2004 09:35 PM                        Bobby, I bought a HP zd7000 about six months ago and swear by it. It continues to be the best thing I've ever bought. The 17" 16:10 screen takes a little getting used to, but the layout allows you to put all of your graphic app windows together on one side and still have a decent working "square" area on the other. The max res on mine is 1440x900, but they offer a 1680x1050 version. It came with a Nvidia 128mb vid card (or chip i guess). It'll run for about 2 hours on a battery, but I don't think that it slows down the processor any. I paid about $1400 for it. You might try checking into other less mainstream vendors that are geared toward gamers, like alienware or falcon nw. They might also offer the higher rez screen that you're looking for, but will be pricier.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 10-02-2004 10:07 PM                        We recently bought a refurbished Dell Inspiron XPS (from Dell). Basically a gamer's notebook. 3.2GHz P4, 800MHz front side bus, 1GB 400MHz RAM, 80GB 7200RPM drive Radeon something graphics, widescreen. The thing is amazing, but it weighs a ton! It's definitely not a lightweight. Battery life has been surprisingly good though all things considered, easily over 2 hours. Billed as refurbished but as-new as far as we could tell.  |  IP: Logged Dean Kollet Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 591 From: Florida State University Registered: Jul 2003 posted 10-03-2004 02:03 AM                     I have a Dell Laptop, bought it in 2001 and it went downhill from the first day I bought it. I still love Dells b/c I've seen a lot of quality and innovation, but there's a LOT more out there. Many people overlook IBM laptops these days. They are built well, and they take abuse. Function, not fashion. Apple's laptops are amazing, but if the software you use doesn't talk well with them (although it's a LOT easier than it seems) then don't do it. As with Apple's though, you really can't beat them up like you can an IBM. HP is slowly becoming a great laptop, with the newest models impressiong the hell out of me (and quite a few journalists as well). I wouldn't wait for technology like that to come to laptops unless it's memory. If you want a laptop to last 4+ hours you are going to need a low current CPU (Pentium M or Centrino). What software are you using? Where will this laptop go? What kind of use and abuse will you give it? Do you really need to play games/DVD's on it at a high resolution? I could narrow some machines down quite a bit if you let me know. Hope this helps.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-03-2004 07:29 PM                     The applications I need to run on this new laptop include various Adobe, Macromedia and Corel programs. To be productive, they need a high resolution display as well as lots of RAM. I plan to order a laptop with 1GB of DDR memory.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 10-04-2004 01:29 AM                        Bottom line is, so long as you are being even somewhat productive your battery life is going to be shorter than that advertised AND what has been reported here. Most battery time estimates are based on something like a 20% processor & I/O duty cycle. Any graphics app that is actually doing something is going to blow that away. If you're really just looking for something that you can use away from your desk, but still near power (like on the couch), then I would pretty much ignore any battery life claims. That said, I've owned or have purchased and administered for company use just about every make of laptop and notebook out there. Dell, by far, has been not only the best value for us, but the best product. They're usually not the cheapest though, rather quite often one of the most expensive. Worth it in my opinion. As for the actual hardware specs, spec it out how ever you'd like and to whatever you can afford and deal with for four or five years. At "maximum performance" settings the hardware will run just as fast as similarily spec'd desktop machines. That's especially try for central processors, video processors, and memory. Disk I/O can be a pain though since 5200 rpm drives are still common in portables, although sustained transfer rates of these disks are usually pretty much on par with 7200 rpm drives. About your CPU throttling concern, it's only done to conserve the battery, and is quite tolerable and even unnoticable when you're not doing anything processor intensive (word processing, email, web surfing, etc.), but will hurt many graphics app processes. When you're doing graphics stuff you're going to need to plug the machine in if you're going to be doing it for any more than a short period of time. Also note that one of the battery saving 'methods' of portable computers is to kill your screen brightness, which makes any colour dependent graphics tasks impossible. OK for doing some vector art, but that's about it. So anyway, buy whatever you can afford unless you want to gamble and buy something cheaper expecting to buy another cheaper machine sooner than you'd replace a more expensive one. In most cases, assuming you're not going the cheap route, you're going to pay at least twice that of a similar desktop machine. Now, probably the most usefull thing I have to say (the above really isn't too enlightening), in about 100 portable computers I've used or dealt with from various manufacturers, the Dell notebooks are the only ones I've truely been happy with (save for the NEC I had about 10 years ago... that thing took one hell of a beating and was before I started using Dells).  |  IP: Logged Dean Kollet Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 591 From: Florida State University Registered: Jul 2003 posted 10-04-2004 11:04 AM                     I have a Dell Inspiron 8000, and so does my roomate....and my other friend up here at college. After a year, all 3 of them turned to complete shit. LCD panels needing replaced, hard drive controllers messing up, etc. And we didn't even take them anywhere to get beat up. My father works for a big corperation and all they use is Dell...needless to say he has had 4 replacement laptops in the past year. That being said, that is still better than the Sony, Toshiba, Fujitsu, and HP's that my friends have has break on them. Why can't you use an Apple? For the graphics you do, it might not be a bad idea.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-04-2004 11:24 AM                        If you have the cash, Dell makes the Precision M60, which has really nice graphics and which also has very nice general performance specs. Not cheap, though. The D600 is also decent, but doesn't have the graphics capability of the M60. I agree that Dell sells decent laptops--not the best, but generally cost-effective. Get the 3-year extended warranty.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-04-2004 05:50 PM                     I think Apple machines are great, but getting an Apple laptop is not an option. I plan to move files for projects in progress between the laptop and the two desktop PCs I use at work and at home. Differences in font and color handling between Mac and PC platforms can cause a lot of headaches. On top of that, I would have to spend at least a couple thousand dollars on new software licenses for a second platform. Certain apps I use (such as Corel for instance) are no longer available for the Mac. And that's too bad, because Corel was one of the very few companies actually shipping "single inventory" packages with both Mac/PC installers in the same box. The trouble is I never bought the upgrades to CorelDRAW 10 or 11. Version 12 is PC only. I looked at Dell's Precision Workstation notebook line and found them to be really overpriced. I configured a Dell Inspiron 8600 with identical specifications (CPU, RAM, hard disc, video, etc.) and ended up over $1000 less. I can understand the difference in the Precision Workstation desktops since you can configure for dual CPUs, Ultra320 SCSI hard discs, various types of RAID, etc. But the staggering difference on price for the notebooks appears to be price gouging on basis of the model tag. Heck, I could even put together a boutique Alienware laptop for less. I'm still trying to make up my mind between getting a laptop with a Mobile PentiumIV CPU or a newer Pentium M "Centrino" with 2MB of L2 cache. For computing power sake, I'm leaning more toward a 3.2GHz P4 since Photoshop would benefit from the hyperthreading feature with those chips. The Centrino would be nice for sake of battery saving features. But if it runs pretty slow for graphics apps in battery mode (not to mention dimming down the screen too low), it may counterproductive for my needs. The Dell Inspiron 9100 (a more conservative looking version of their hulking XPS gaming laptop) looks pretty interesting. For $2500, I could get one featuring a P4 3.2GHz CPU, 1GB of DDR RAM, 256MB Radeon 9800 video card, dual layer DVD burner, 7200RPM 60GB hard disc, b/g wireless LAN, Bluetooth and a 15.4" widescreen monitor (either with WSXGA+ resolution or WUXGA). That's another feature I'm a little stumped about. 1920 X 1200 resolution sound like it would be great. But if it makes text, toolbars, etc. way too tiny I may be better off going with 1600 X 1050 WSXGA+ setting. Reviews about the 9100 laptop are pretty good for the most part. But there are complaints about loud fan noise during 3D gaming and the unit getting a little hot to rest on your lap.  |  IP: Logged Dean Kollet Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 591 From: Florida State University Registered: Jul 2003 posted 10-05-2004 10:34 AM                     yeah, and if you set the resolution lower than the native, it looks like garbage. Since you are basically looking at a gaming Laptop, have you thought of a smaller company like VoodooPC or Alienware?  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-05-2004 06:16 PM                     Yeah, I've looked at laptops from boutique companies like Alienware. They just cost too much money for the hardware going into them. The Dell 9100 laptop I configured cost $2550 as of this writing. That's pretty much at the top end of what I want to spend. The same hardware in Dell XPS laptop clothes, with the only difference being a 3.4GHz P4 would be over $500 more expensive. $500 and all your getting is .2GHz more, a backpack and a different looking case. Blah. The 9100 is a better deal. A similarly tricked out laptop from Alienware, along with an identical warranty plan, would run close to $4000. That's even more absurd pricing than I saw with Dell's workstation laptop series. I think $2500 is a kind of make or break point when it comes to laptop computers. If you're spending above that, you're into the top of the line standard desktop PC pricing category. Really, I wanted to keep the spending level at or under $2000, but I can go as high as $2500. Beyond that, it's just doesn't make much sense. I'm not absolutely sold on the Dell 9100 notebook, but it is the leading choice for me currently. It's heavy (the laptop and AC adapter in a bag will run 14 pounds) and runs pretty hot. There may not be very many instances where I would need to run it off the battery. The configuration I put together would tear through Photoshop work pretty well and perhaps even be able to deal with some video work via the 7200rpm hard disc. As far as gaming goes with a Dell 9100, I would want to make sure Dell has their own hotfix ready for the ATI Radeon 9800XT 256MB video card. DoomIII has a lot of problems on ATI chipsets without the "hotfix" applied. Dell puts together their own OEM drivers for the video cards used in their systems. Often their driver updates may lag behind the after market name brand card updates. Then again, gaming won't be the main purpose for this machine. I'm not going to buy it unless I can make some money using it. Most people don't make any money playing video games.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 10-05-2004 08:25 PM                        $500 more for the 3.4GHz chip (compared to the 3.2GHz chip) actual reflects the increased cost for Dell quite well. That's how Intel sets their price structure, it's how they make their money, it's how they've always done it... nothing new. For the smart user, the 3.2GHz chip is just fine. The 3.4GHz chip currently priced for those people who "must have something better than everyone else". When the 3.8 and 4.0 GHz chips are released the 3.6 will be moved to the standard pricing level just like clockwork. As for screen resolution vs screen size, I like to keep under about 115 dots per vertical inch, and prefer about 85 to 95 dots per vertical inch. Regarding (from way above) screen brightness dimming to conserver battery life, it's not just the Mobile Pentium (Pentium M) chips that do this, all portable computers do it, and maximum battery life is usually based on brightness being at the lowest possible setting (which is OK for use on an large aircraft -- what they are usually targeting with long battery life portables). As for the ATI service pack issue, you can almost always run ATI's own drivers and service packs since it is rare that anyone adds functionality to an ATI chipset based device anymore. If anything you'll gain functionality using the ATI drivers.  |  IP: Logged

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