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Author
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Topic: Language Q about 'Lost in Translation'
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John Walsh
Film God
Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999
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posted 02-05-2005 04:43 PM
A friend and I were talking about the scene where the director is telling Bill Murray to; 'look more intense..' We were wondering, what does he really say - is the girl translating accurately? And, more specifically, does the Japanese language require a lot of words to express some concepts? I thought this might be some kind of 'in joke' about the Japanese language.
It's sort of strange ... I think many Americans are intrigued by the Japanese, and they seem intrigued by us, too. Off hand, I can't think of another two countries with this kind of interest with each other. Although, I think they feel we're a little crazy, too. Can't say I blame them... ! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"
Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 02-05-2005 06:50 PM
Actually, you will find that people in many countries are fascinated by Japan and the Japanese culture. It is easy to see why. Japanese history is very interesting, violent and colorful on the one hand (OK, all countries' history is violent, but few Asian countries are as directly connected to Western countries, with their pact with NS Germany in WWII and the wars against Russia and the US), mysterious on the other, and the culture has an almost unparalleled high sense of aesthetics, a highly developed material and mental culture - and the greatest food on the planet!
Japan was completely sealed off from the outside world after 1600. Authorities there had become tired of the Christian missionaries' constant mingling in political affairs and were basically the only country to realize that the missionaries were just the first step in colonialization.
Until the forced opening by the US Navy in 1854 (they persuaded Japan to allow ships to land there to build a stronger base in the Pacific), Japan was completely isolated and conserved its culture independent of external influences. After the opening, many reforms were started, and after WWII, the country recouperated very quickly and became a leading industrial nation. The mix of very traditional and Western influences in modern Japanese culture is probably one of many elements particularly appealing to Westerners.
In general, you cannot say if the language takes more or less words to describe typical concepts than English. Just like between any other pair of languages, you will find that each language has very specific expressions which are very difficult to directly translate and must be explained or paraphrased.
A funny example where Japanese has its own verb where most Western languages paraphrase is the verb "futoru" which in one word means "to be overweight". So, the phrase "Kanojo wa futotte iru" means, literally, "she is fatting". On the other hand, there are many examples of where English has a specific word which other languages don't have, and the meaning has to be paraphrased in so many words.
For instance, in English, you can simply say "he is tall". In Japanese, you need more words: "Kare wa sei ga takai desu", literally: "as for him, the body height is tall".
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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today
Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99
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posted 02-05-2005 07:23 PM
I'm sure Japan thinks we are a little crazy. But they are COMPLETELY INSANE! I have played many videogames imported from Japan, and boy are those guys nuts. The small amount of Japanese culture that I have studied reveals the same thing. What other country would invent a doll shaped like a man's arm for women to sleep with and confide in? Yeah, pretty messed up, but that's why we love them I guess. We just can't get enough of their kooky-kraziness. Of course if you are not Japanese, then they think less of you. They are very racist, but you'd probably never know it talking with them or visiting there. At least they make an effort to suppress it. As for the food, I imagine Japan has some of the world's worst food, especially since I like beef.
Check out this web page written by an American teacher who teaches English in Japan. The students (male and female) are constantly trying to grab his dick and shove their fingers up his anus! Yeah, pretty messed up, but true. It's a hilarious read.
Sorry to stray from your original question, John. I'm sure they were just making anti-gaijin remarks.
Gaijin Smash!
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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!
Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 02-05-2005 09:00 PM
I think the scene is being played as a joke about (not quite) simultaneous interpretation. She is translating only a tiny portion of what the director is saying--as far as it goes what she says is correct. Here's my rough and very inexpert translation--as always I invite corrections:
The director gives Murray the set up, "You are lounging in your study. On the table in front of you is Suntory whiskey, OK? With feeling, slowly, look into the camera, and gently, like meeting an old friend, speak the line. Like Bogie in Casablanca, you raise a toast and say, 'Suntory time.'"
The interpreter tells Murray, "He want you to turn, look in camera. OK?"
When Murray asks which direction he should turn, the interpreter does give the director the complete translation.
The director continues, "I don't know, either way! (We have) no time (for this) Bob-san! OK? More quickly! Raise the tension! While looking into the camera gently, be passionate! Into the camera! With passion! With your eyes! Got it?"
The interpreter says, "Right side and with intensity." Murray questions whether that's all he said.
The director continues, "You're not just pitching whiskey here! Got it? So like meeting an old friend, gently... [in English] Gently, OK? From the heart! Build the tension! [...]"
The interpreter says, "Like an old friend, and into the camera."
Murray says, "OK."
Take 1. The director knows Murray didn't get it, "The name 'Suntory' must resound! Suntory is the most expensive! So, with more of a first-class feeling. OK? This is not a routine thing! With the highest feeling!"
The interpreter overlaps, "Could you do it slower, and with more intensity."
Take 2.
I didn't get the director's last comment after he called cut, but obviously he still wasn't happy. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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