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Author Topic: Video Editing Software Recommendations Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 04-16-2006 10:50 PM                    I'm about two microns away from buying a Mac so I can do real video editing. I'm sick and tired of using this Pinnacle Studio crap that keeps crashing my PC. Does anyone have any recommendations for video editing software? Should I go with the Adobe stuff? Or is there something better that I should look at? I want to have the ability to add basic effects, and do multichannel sound on DVD. AC3 is fine. Multitrack mixing of the audio is a must, so whether I do that in the video editing program, or in something else and then import it, which ever works. Right now I'm using Cool Edit Pro - which I really like and I would like to keep all of that functionality, and Pinnacle Studio 10 for the video stuff. Thanks.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 04-16-2006 11:11 PM                        You want Final Cut Studio. That comes with Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Soundtrack, Cinema Tools, Livetype and some other nonsense. You cannot get better software than this for a personal computer PERIOD. I edit multi-channel AC3 DVDs all of the time. It takes a little creativity exporting the audio from Final Cut Pro, but it's not a big deal. Fuck Adobe. Fuck Avid.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-16-2006 11:58 PM                     The situation on the PC side has gotten somewhat better. Avid and Adobe's newest products don't have nearly so many drawbacks as their previous versions. However, the newest offerings from Adobe and Avid both have some pretty fierce hardware requirements. Avid Xpress Pro and the Avid Mojo are great tools, if you have the bucks to get it. You also need the right kind of computing gear. Avid has some recommended PC configurations, along with approved Firewire chipsets. You can't hook a Mojo up to just any Firewire port. Some Firewire chipsets, like the one for the integrated Firewire 400 port in my Dell notebook, will ruin an Avid Mojo when attached. Adobe is a less expensive alternative, and with their Production Studio Premium package you'll get the latest versions of After Effects, Photoshop and Illustrator as well as Premiere Pro 2, Encore 2 and Audition 2 (which used to be Cool Edit Pro). Adobe's new Production Studio Premium box is pretty impressive. I recently ordered it for my computer at work. I was going to order a personal license to install on my notebook. But then when finding it demands over 20GB of hard disc space I changed my mind. The installer consists of 5 DVD-ROM discs and took over an hour to load on my Pentium D 840 computer at work. The box for this suite is huge. Unlike other Adobe packages, this one gives you a bunch of printed manuals. Once loaded, the suite is an impressive jump from the last one. Many of the complaints with the previous Adobe Video Collection suite have been taken care of. Premiere Pro now supports things like multi camera editing and native HDV support (previously you had to convert HDV footage into an intermediate format). The interface in the Adobe video applications is very nice. At first it seems a little Macromedia-like, but has more capability. You can customize and save individual workspaces. You can tear off different palettes and spread them across multiple monitors, which is good because applications like After Effects and Premiere Pro have lots of palettes. Illustrator is the only one of the bunch that confines you into using a single monitor. Adobe Dynamic Link is one of the best new features. You can place something like an After Effects file into a Premiere Pro project or an Encore DVD project and not have to do any intermediate rendering. Native Photoshop, Illustrator and Flash Pro files are supported. Regardless of whatever video suite anyone is using, they'll likely need Adobe After Effects, Photoshop and Illustrator as part of the toolkit. It will cost you less money buying Adobe's suite rather than buying those apps separately. The premium version costs $1699 (you need that to get the DVD authoring applications). For $2099 you get Flash 8 Professional thrown in as well. Add a 2nd physical hard drive to the cost if you don't already have one. I added a 300GB SATA 2nd physical drive to my work computer when installing that Adobe suite. Still, if you want the most simple solution and you're willing to jump platforms to do it, Apple still holds the lead with its suite. Apple now has an Intel-native version of Final Cut Studio. That in combination with BootCamp will allow you to run your old Windows applications on a WinXP partition (in FAT32 though, not NTFS) and then run the Apple-exclusive stuff in OSX.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 04-17-2006 12:21 AM                        I can just see the flashy text on the boxes for the newest versios of Premiere and Avid: "Now with even FEWER drawbacks than before!!!"  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 04-17-2006 01:58 AM                  Joe is right on target with Final Cut Pro... all the rest I too have tried and are CRAP! Including the so-call professional Avid shit! I am sooo sick of ALL the PC crap! It's ALL a big-time waste of mega $$$$! Quit screwing around and buy a MAC and FCP!  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 04-17-2006 11:17 AM                     It looks like I got lucky; I bought an Apple mainly for video work. I'm not doing production, but have used it for things like restoration of old wedding videos, where I've had to edit together sections from several copies to restore damaged or worn material. I didn't need Final Cut for this, I could do all the editing I needed to in imovie, but I wasn't happy with idvd. I decided that I needed Dvd Studio Pro, but couldn't afford it at the time. I then discovered that Apple were dropping it as a saeparate product, any when the new universal code version was released would only supply it as part of Final Cut Studio, at about 900 pounds. At this point alarm bells started ringing, so I borrowed an extra 340 pounds or so on the credit card, and bought DVD Studio, just before it was withdrawn as a stand-alone product. I have since discovered that anybody who owns a licence for any of the components of Final Cut Studio, including DVD Studio Pro, is eligible for an upgrade to the new version of the whole suite for, a very low price, 159 pounds, I think. This means that I can get Final Cut Studio for about 400 pounds less than the list price. It's really overkill for what I'll be doing with it, but I'm going to get it, while I can. I don't know of anything else which equals it, at anything like that price.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-17-2006 03:07 PM                     If you already have a Mac then buying the Final Cut Studio suite is a no-brainer. Things aren't anywhere near as easy if you're heavily vested in Windows-based stuff. I have a fortune invested in software, fonts and other assets on that platform and I'm not just going to throw away all that stuff and spend another fortune buying everything all over again just to run things on another platform. BootCamp is a move in the right direction, but it has limitations. Apparently you can only create a FAT32 partition for WinXP on an Intel-based Mac, which sucks for the extra security liabilities, wasteful use of disc space and 4GB maximum file size limit. NTFS is superior to FAT32. I'm hoping Apple can support NTFS in the final version. I also believe Apple is making a big mistake by not creating a Windows version of Final Cut Studio. In staying Mac-only they are leaving the entire Windows market to Adobe, Avid, Autodesk and a number of others. Those companies aren't just standing still either. Others can scoff at Adobe if they like, but this new suite gets rid of every complaint I had with their last version and it includes After Effects, Photoshop and Illustrator -all industry leading programs.  |  IP: Logged Dieter Depypere Master Film Handler Posts: 343 From: Deutsch-Wagram, Lower Austria, Austria Registered: May 2005 posted 04-18-2006 06:02 AM                     Just dropping in: Is there a good video editing software for Windows too which you would recommend? I would like a program which allows me to record from external sources via TV-Card plus editing plus exporting/rendering to AVI or MPEG, maybe allowing the use of codecs. And yes it should run stable and fast  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 04-18-2006 06:26 AM                     quote: Bobby Henderson The interface in the Adobe video applications is very nice. At first it seems a little Macromedia-like, but has more capability. Didn't Adobe buy macromedia; or am I thinking of somebody else?  |  IP: Logged Paul Gordon Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 580 From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Registered: Aug 2005 posted 04-18-2006 07:15 AM                        Final Cut Pro is the way to go for Mac. I've been using it for 5 years, rock solid software If your in the PC world Avid Express DV or Avid Express Pro is your best bet. -Paul  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-18-2006 07:34 AM                     quote: Dieter Depypere Just dropping in: Is there a good video editing software for Windows too which you would recommend? The Avid Xpress Pro and Mojo device bundle is the best "prosumer" solution ($2500 price range). Avid Liquid Pro is also pretty decent with the $999 version including a pretty nice breakout box -but it isn't nearly as powerful as the Mojo. The Adobe Production Suite Premium is a new release and features new versions of After Effects Professional, Premiere Pro, Encore and Audition. Full versions of IllustratorCS2 and PhotoshopCS2 are also thrown in. The suite costs $1699. If you bought the applications separately you would pay well over $3000. Sony Vegas is a more affordable option. If you're looking in the $200 and below area it is a crap shoot. This is actually the area where I feel Apple is at its strongest. The high end areas are points of debate. On the low end, Apple very clearly has the best stuff around for consumers with things like iMovie. If you're wanting something that just works, you might consider buying a Mac Mini and hooking a monitor and mouse to it. You'll get that iLife suite bundled in with it. quote: Stephen Furley Didn't Adobe buy macromedia; or am I thinking of somebody else? Yes, Adobe finalized its takeover of Macromedia last fall. After Effects 7 has very tight integration with Flash 8 Professional.  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 04-18-2006 12:07 PM                     I am very pleased with the new Premiere Pro 1.5, which I use at work. Haven't upgraded to the 2.0 version yet (but will when we go hi-def next year as budgeted), with Matrox's AXIO system. I used to a lot of problems with older Premiere systems, but the new one is well designed, and seems to work very smoothly. We do use striped drives for the video footage, however, and I'm probably not competent enough to build one myself.  |  IP: Logged Scott Jentsch Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1061 From: New Berlin, WI, USA Registered: Apr 2003 posted 04-18-2006 12:41 PM                        I second the suggestion of Sony Vegas+DVD. It runs around $700, depending on where you look. I have Vegas Movie Studio, which is the lite version of the software, and except for being able to do surround sound, it has what you're looking for. I have used ULead's products and found them to be completely confusing, whereas the Sony software was immediately comfortable to understand and use. Even though the Studio level of product is stripped down, I don't think I know how to use even a small percentage of its features. I do wish I had the ability to do Dolby Digital 5.1, but I can't justify the higher cost of the full package just to get that capability. The full-blown Sony Vegas+DVD package would provide you with the ability to do Dolby Digital, but I've not heard of any way to do DTS. If you're doubting the capabilities of the software, there is a guy by the name of Douglas Spotted Eagle that has done some incredible things with Sony Vegas. I've gone to a few seminars where he has demonstrated what is possible, and it's pretty impressive to see what can be done by people who are truly talented. I have no experience with Final Cut Studio, so I can't give you any points of comparison, however. Sony also offers trial versions of their software packages for download. I recommend downloading the software for yourself and giving it a try. In regards to your crashing problems, have you eliminated any possibility that it's a result of bad hardware or drivers? Video editing is a very intense task, and machines that run average tasks just fine can have issues with intense applications that really stress things. My impression is that Macs are pretty well-built, and overbuilt when compared to many common PC's. That's not to say that they are unnecessarily overbuilt, since that investment pays off when you want to really take the machine out for a spin. Hyperthreading is the minimum I would recommend unless you like waiting for things, dual processors/cores would be better. 1GB of good RAM is a solid starting point, 2GB is better. Two fast hard drives will keep you from turning grey while you wait for complex edits to take effect and for rendering to complete. All that said, I don't think that the historical biases towards Macs for graphics and video automatically apply. I would have to see and experience the differences for myself before I would make the investment in hardware and software. I'm not against Macs by any means; I'd love to have one to see for myself, but the price of admission is just way too high for me based on what I've seen so far.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-18-2006 12:59 PM                     Premiere Pro 2.0 integrates directly with the Matrox AXIO system. I have also heard some really good things about the AJA Xena|HS-SDI card, which directly supports Premiere Pro 2.0, After Effects 7 and even PhotoshopCS2. That's one area on the PC platform where Adobe's OpenHD effort competes hard with Avid. I think there's going to be a lot more growth in video capture cards on the PC platform. The market is just too huge to ignore. That's going to heat up the level of competition between companies offering video editing suites on Windows. Avid and Adobe are already in the thick of it. Autodesk has some really high end video tools from their aquisition of Discreet and could do more in the "prosumer" video area than just offering Cleaner and Combustion. You can edit HD in Discreet Fire or Smoke, but you'll shell out big $$$ to do it. On the DTS thing, I don't think any current shipping application Mac or PC, has DTS encode capability in the box. Adobe's Production Studio thing is a bit misleading in that regard. In the blurbs about Encore it mentions support of DTS. But that's only referring to an already DTS-encoded audio track. Adobe Audition is turning in a great sound editing tool, but you can't encode 5.1 tracks there. You have to do it in Premiere Pro.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-18-2006 01:09 PM                        Which of these options will provide a negative cut list to allow matching original film footage back to the editing version? How does one deal with the 3:2 pulldown and sound sync issues when editing on a computer, and what is the best way to get production sound from DAT into the editing software (to sync with picture)? (I'm currently editing a 16mm short--to be blown up to 35mm--by hand on a Steenbeck, but this information may be useful at some point in the future when I might actually be able to afford to rent the hardware and software that I'd need to edit electronically.)  |  IP: Logged

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