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Topic: Letterboxing On TV Question

Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-07-2007 06:20 PM

Maybe someone can answer my question? Why is it on television the opening and closing credits/title sequences to many films are shown letterboxed, and during the actual film it is switched to pann-and-scan?

For example, ABC TV For Family (a cable/satellite channel) regularly airs "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang", which was shot in Super Panavision. They show the opening title sequence and closing scenes letterboxed, but then show the film body in pan-and-scan. Why???

Cheers

K

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 04-07-2007 06:26 PM

Mostly so that all of the credits are visible. Otherwise they'd have to pan back and forth a lot or just let anything at the sides be chopped off. Sometimes I've seen where they just run the credits squeezed to 1.33 which looks really bad. Running in 2.39 letterbox at least gets all of the frame visible.

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Ron Curran
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 504
From: Springwood NSW Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 04-07-2007 06:43 PM

... and the commercial channels get viewer complaints that they are cutting off the top and bottom of the picture if they letterbox the body of the feature.

Public channels here often show films in the correct proportions.

What I don't understand is where they get those Academy Format prints of recent films.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 04-08-2007 02:17 AM

The practice of showing opening trademark and credits of features that were in cinemascope and leaving them in the squeezed format was the standard norm on TV back then - both local station movies and network movies..and also the end credits as well-squeezed.

Even when VHS/BETA pre-recorded tapes were introduced in the late 70's to mid 80's, these productions carried the squeezed trademark and opening credits.

I've got the VHS copy of "Chitty,Chitty,Bang,Bang" (wonderful on the big screen in IB Techicolor and 4trk mag sound) in this same condition as what Will mentions: Opening credits in letterbox with the feature in pan and scan..

ABC TV in the late 60's would begin the movie AFTER the opening credits were over with and then at the end of the movie, play both the trademark and opening credits....which was a bit odd to witness.

-Monte

[ 04-08-2007, 04:33 AM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 04-08-2007 04:26 AM

Lots of HDTV programs are being letterboxed when shown on SDTV these days, while others are not. Do the letterboxed programs get complaints from viewers? Lots of commercials are letterboxed as well, and with the advent of DVD, perhaps people are finally getting used to it.

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 04-08-2007 10:21 AM

And then you've got channels like HBO, which go so far as to letterbox THE SOPRANOS for their SD channel, but then crop scope movies for their HD channel. What's up with that?

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Mark Strube
Master Film Handler

Posts: 322
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-08-2007 11:00 AM

HBO loves the 1.78:1 ratio, which The Sopranos is in. For their HD channel, that's what they try to get all content in, even if it means cropping or open-matting movies that are supposed to be wider. There are a few exceptions... for example Star Wars Ep. 3 was kept in its original ratio, I'm sure because Lucas betched.

I'd say they only keep their original programming in widescreen on the SD channel because well... they're HBO. Their programming is of course more important than these mere "movies" they get the rights to play.

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 04-08-2007 01:10 PM

Letterboxing of credits also has to do with contracts between actors / directors and the other principal guild /union members on projects. So the other people in the credits get to ride on the coat tails of the others during the letterboxing. Even if the film is so many years old. It also has the do with credits and size of lettering and placement in posters and other advertising materials.

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Geoff Jones
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 579
From: Broomfield, CO, USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 04-08-2007 02:45 PM

Yeah, I got HBO for free for a few days through my cable company. I recorded a couple of movies (Red Eye & The New World) I had always wanted to see, but deleted them when I saw that they were cropped from 2:35 to 16:9.

I sent 'em a letter telling them I wouldn't become a subscriber as long as they were doing that. I doubt it did any good, but who knows.

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James Westbrook
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1133
From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 04-08-2007 03:04 PM

The Encore channels are unpredictable: A lot of their movies are panned and scanned, but less than a couple of weeks ago, Action ran Diamonds are Forever and Live and Let Die letterboxed.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-08-2007 03:11 PM

Showtime is normally pretty good about letterboxing.

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John Lasher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 493
From: Newark, DE
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 04-08-2007 04:16 PM

quote: Ron Curran
...Academy Format prints of recent films

I hope that's meant to be sarcasm?

Nothing on TV is shown from a film print anymore. Even programming which originates on film (Many sit-coms and >90% of "Evening Soaps") is transferred to tape or some sort of digital media for broadcast. As far as how they get recent films in 4x3 format ("Academy" as you say), just log on to amazon.com and see how many recent films are available in FOOL Screen.

I get a wicked little thrill every time I have to explain to a customer why "Miami Vice" and "Flags Of Our Fathers" aren't available in P&S (short-short version: contractually forbidden).

Of course, I have the misfortune to live and work in a state with an illiteracy rating of 1 in 5.

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Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 04-08-2007 06:58 PM

I happened to catch part of "The Ten Commandments" on HD last night. The focus was soft at best and I gave up watching. It looked to me that they were simply piping their SD broadcast into the HD channel. Given that TV doesn't run film in real time any more I think the least they could have done was do an HD transfer for broadcast. It was shown 1.33:1 instead of 1.85:1 and really looked BAD. [Frown]

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