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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Author
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Topic: Cop in Noble, OK tries to shoot snake, kills 5 year old boy instead
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-07-2007 02:05 PM
This is the story, as reported by the Associated Press:
quote: Associated Press
Noble, Okla. (AP) _ Officials in Noble say a 5-year-old boy was shot and killed last week by an apparent stray bullet fired by a police officer attempting to kill a snake. Jack Tracy says he was fishing with his 5-year-old grandson Austin Haley Friday evening when he saw the first shot hit the water near where they were standing. As he pulled his grandson to his side, he says a second shot hit the boy in the head.
Noble city manager bob wade says police received a complaint last night from residents in a subdivision about a snake. When officers responded, they decided to shoot the snake. A few minutes later, Wade says there was a commotion in a wooded area behind them where the boy apparently was hit by the stray bullet.
Austin was transported to an Oklahoma City hospital, where he was pronounced dead. Wade refused to identify the officer suspected of firing the shots but says the officer has been placed on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation.
This tragedy is so stupid and senseless I find it anger inspiring. It's one of the worst examples of idiocy I've heard about in quite a long time.
Basically there's a number of points of stupidity at work in this situation.
#1: I think anyone who has a big problem with snakes has no business at all living out in rural areas where snakes are common. You either co-exist with them (and do what you can to avoid them) or live in the freaking city.
#2: Usually when someone wants a snake killed, they usually kill the snake on their own -typically using items like shovels, yard tools, etc. They don't call the freaking cops about it.
#3: It is arguably pretty stupid for cops to actually answer a call about a snake, when the snake is found in or next to a wooded area near water -their natural habitat. If some old lady found a rattlesnake or cottonmouth in her house, then perhaps a call to the police might be justified. I would even say it's alright to get animal control involved when some former pet but now abandoned python is found in your back yard eating your dog. If you see a snake in the woods -that's called a National Geographic Moment. You might feel like taking a picture or just keep walking. What you don't do is whine to the police about it! If you built a new house next to the woods the snakes and other critters come with the deal.
#4: Then we have the most stupid issue of all: cops using guns to kill snakes. What in the world possessed them to come up with that solution? Probably macho idiocy and the need to have fun shooting guns. There's a great place for shooting: it's called a "firing range." You never fire a gun in a residential area unless some bad guy is shooting at you and you have no choice but to return fire. You don't sling lead at snakes! Heck, I wouldn't even try that idiotic stunt out in the wilderness. Bullets can ricochet quite easily. If you're trying to shoot a snake (and likely at somewhat close range), it wouldn't take much for a bullet to glance off a rock or hard surface and come right back at you.
Thanks to all those bad decisions a 5 year old boy is now dead. That boy's family is having to deal with tragedy and torment a whole lot worse than finding a 1000 snakes under your house.
The moral of the story is leave snakes alone.
Snakes naturally want to avoid people. Rattlesnakes are even polite enough to alert us to their presence before they strike. Most people bitten by snakes are doing something stupid and risky around the snakes to make it happen. And even then, most rattlesnake bites are "dry bites" where very little or no venom is injected. Fewer than 6 people in the United States die from snake bites every year. A lot more are killed by domestic house pets (like large dogs).
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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug
Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 08-07-2007 05:08 PM
That truly is a tragedy. Poor kid didn't even have a chance at life.
I live where I see all sorts of wildlife walking down my street and hillside... Deer, coyotes, squirrels, skunks, rats, an occasional bob cat, lizards, scorpions, tarantulas, and snakes, etc.
A couple of weeks ago, while getting my mail, I saw a 35-foot rattle snake crossing my driveway. Ok OK OK! So it was really only about 4-5 feet, but it sure still looked bigger! I kept my distance! HA! ![[beer]](graemlins/beer.gif)
I agree with the others, it's part of where ya live. If ya don't like it...MOVE!
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-07-2007 06:10 PM
quote: Bobby Henderson
The moral of the story is leave snakes alone.
Snakes naturally want to avoid people. Rattlesnakes are even polite enough to alert us to their presence before they strike. Most people bitten by snakes are doing something stupid and risky around the snakes to make it happen.
While the boy getting killed is indeed tragic and stupid, most of Bobby's rant about snakes is wrongheaded.
1. Rattlesnakes don't always rattle before they strike. If you are walking by one and it is startled, it might strike without rattling.
2. "If you don't like snakes, don't live where they are?" Give me a break. There are rattlesnakes all over Montana but I doubt you'd find more than 1% of the people here who actually like the critters.
3. Don't call the cops to kill a snake? Sorry, but some people are just not crazy/insane/brave enough to kill a snake. Rattlers can get coiled up behind stuff and under rocks and in dark corners, and they can move fast. A coiled rattler can strike up to twice it's length from where it's sitting. I would much rather have a cop come around and dispatch a snake than try to hack one with a shovel myself.
4. Live in a freakin' city? Doesn't always work, either. Rattlesnakes are regularly killed within Billings, which has over 125,000 people. A friend of mine found a rattler curled up and sleeping next to the front door of his shop when he went to work last week. Right in the middle of town, pavement for miles on all sides.
The main rule to remember with rattlesnakes in the wild is, if you hear one, turn around and calmly walk back the way you came. Don't keep running where you were headed, because there might be another snake nearby. Give the original rattle a wide berth and go on your way.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-07-2007 09:52 PM
Wrong headed about snakes? No, I don't think so.
Aside from that, that issue is irrelevant to the stupidity of police officers firing pistols in a residential neighborhood when no one's life was really in any danger at all. They got a boy killed as a result of just wanting to get off on killing something. Simple as that.
quote: Mike Blakesley
1. Rattlesnakes don't always rattle before they strike. If you are walking by one and it is startled, it might strike without rattling.
That's true. However, there are very few places where you are going to encounter a rattlesnake that happens to be in a residential area.
We have several different species of rattlesnakes in the county where I live. I have seen plenty out in the Wichita Mountains. Western Diamondback, Mississauga, Pygmy, Tiber and even some Eastern Diamondbacks. We also have lots of Copperheads in the area. Just south of Lawton, like around Waurika Lake, lie the northern fringes of Cottonmouth territory. But in all the years I have lived in this area, I have never seen a rattlesnake in Lawton. It's rare to find them in more rural tourist spots like Medicine Park. You usually have to go well into the Wichitas to find any venomous snakes.
So far, none of the news reports here in Oklahoma or on the national wires have stated just what kind of snake the people in that new subdivision where complaining about. Oklahoma is home to many different kinds of snakes. Most of them are completely harmless. Given the location of Noble, OK, I would have to say odds are very strong the snake of mention was just some harmless black Natrix snake, often stupidly confused to be a Cottonmouth. Anything black is automatically a Cottonmouth in the eyes of most people.
Snakes are actually beneficial to the environment.
Although I live in Oklahoma, I am ashamed of the perverted tradition of "Rattlesnake Roundups" that take place every year here. If the yahoos organizing those events manage to kill off every rattlesnake what will they do next? Have rat and mouse roundups?
The factory where I work has, on occasion, been refuge to a few corn snakes and green racers. Both are harmless and make a healthy dent in the mouse and rat population coming in from the hay fields and creek nearby. I'd much rather find a corn snake warming itself on the concrete floor in our big shop than having to smell the stink of some huge rat taking weeks to decompose between one of the walls in our office.
quote: Mike Blakesley
2. "If you don't like snakes, don't live where they are?" Give me a break. There are rattlesnakes all over Montana but I doubt you'd find more than 1% of the people here who actually like the critters.
Just because someone doesn't "like" snakes gives them no right at all to take stupidly risky actions, such as firing a gun in a friggin' residential area where children are fishing. The actions of the police really cannot be defended.
Few people like snakes. Most have the decent sense to just stay the hell away from them.
quote: Mike Blakesley
3. Don't call the cops to kill a snake? Sorry, but some people are just not crazy/insane/brave enough to kill a snake. Rattlers can get coiled up behind stuff and under rocks and in dark corners, and they can move fast. A coiled rattler can strike up to twice it's length from where it's sitting. I would much rather have a cop come around and dispatch a snake than try to hack one with a shovel myself.
I repeat, fewer than 6 people in the United States are killed by snakes every year. That is not a statement of opinion. It is one of fact.
Most people killed by snakes are doing something stupid with the snakes, such as trying to pick them up or trying to hassle or harm them. A good number of people who die from rattlesnake bites are from a religious group who takes a certain part of the bible literally instead of seeing the metaphor involved. When bitten some refuse medical treatment and die as a result of the bites. If that tradition wasn't a factor you would probably see that average death toll of 5-6 reduced by half or even eliminated completely in some years.
Anyone who claims to have been chased by a rattlesnake is lying.
In Montana, there should be at least a few experienced wildlife officials who can catch and relocate snakes who venture into populated areas. Calling the cops and breaking out the guns, especially within a city like Billings, should never be necessary.
Regardless, any snake that is left alone will leave to find prey elsewhere. An urban environment doesn't provide much food at all for any serpent.
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-07-2007 11:21 PM
Let's see, I think if you look at my post you'll see that I said the death of the boy was STUPID. So I'm not defending the cops.
I also never said a cop had to SHOOT a snake with a GUN to kill it. I said most people would rather have a cop "dispatch" a snake than do it themselves. Who gives a shit what method the cop uses? Just get rid of the damn thing.
quote: Bobby Henderson
But in all the years I have lived in this area, I have never seen a rattlesnake in Lawton. It's rare to find them in more rural tourist spots like Medicine Park. You usually have to go well into the Wichitas to find any venomous snakes.
I've never seen a rattlesnake in town in my 50 years in Forsyth either, but one was killed two weeks ago outside of a local welding shop.
"Stay the hell away from the snakes?" I've done hundreds of hours of walking in wilderness areas in my life, but the only time I've ever encountered rattlesnakes is at the lake where my family has a summer cabin. Rattlers will take a nap in just about any shady area when it's hot out, often under the house or under a flat rock near the house. We had a snake coil up between two propane tanks once. Nice and cool in there.
Most people freak out whenever they see ANY snake, poisonous or not. A few years ago, a bunch of watersnakes decided to take up residence under the bush outside my front door. First, I trimmed up the bush and flung the snakes over the dike to the river. They were back within a week. So, considering I like to have company once in a while and not scare the bejeebers out of them, the snakes were duly obliterated and I cut the bush completely down.
Bats are great for the environment too, but I don't want'em flyin' around my head.
I never said anything about the number of people killed by snakes. How about the number of people bitten? I would venture to guess it's a much higher number. But the number of snake bites is irrevelant, considering that most people will go completely bonkers at the sight of a snake, so they'll demand it be killed at once. My wife gets the willies if we even see a dead one on the highway.
Again, I wish to state that I'm not defending the cop. He was an idiot for firing his gun when and where he did. Who knows? Maybe he freaks out at the sight of a snake, too.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-08-2007 01:49 PM
Just like I thought. The snake in question was not a rattlesnake. It was just a harmless black rat snake. Noble, OK also had been without an animal control officer for the past month, which partly explains why the police were called instead.
The cops may get off the hook due to verbiage in the police department manual, but I think that would be really unfortunate. This was just inexcusable stupidity. Black rat snakes do not look like rattlesnakes at all. Even if the snake turned out to be a rattler or some other venomous species, other solutions should have been figured out besides taking terrible chances firing a handgun in a residential area.
I have a suspicion there's one reason those officers chose to shoot at the snake. There's a certain jokingly macho attitude common around these parts when it comes to wildlife: kill it and laugh. I think the cops figured it would be no big deal to fire at the snake and that the act might be fun.
Lots of people, cops I personally know included, make the same jokes about controlling the prairie dog population in Lawton's Elmer Thomas Park. They joke about it, but thankfully are smart enough to leave the statement as a joke and never act on it.
Quite a few people have fun swerving out of their lane to hit an animal at the side of a road. When I was in high school I watched a motorcyclist wreck his bike when deliberately running over a turtle. Stupid dumbass.
About 10 years ago, a truck hauling stocker steers crashed on an overpass at the I-44 & Cache Road interchange in Lawton. A number of cattle were killed in the crash (some fell from the overpass and others died in the trailer). Some of the cattle got loose. Many residents helped round up the steers that were running loose. But one got a little farther away from the wreck and ventured farther downtown. Animal control was trying to get to the scene to tranquilize the steer. But before he could arrive, several police officers surrounded the steer and emptied their handguns into the animal. A few of the cops were laughing about it, which really pissed off other witnesses who were coming out of the Lawton YMCA that morning. I guess some people just get off on being cruel.
Sometimes that "let's have fun being cruel" macho bullshit backfires. We learn to pull that crap when we are just kids. One of the popular things is to throw rocks at bee hives and wasp nests. Now that we have very aggressive Africanized "killer bees" moving into the area, children have to be warned not to deliberately disturb hives anymore. A man near Duncan, OK was swarmed by Africanized bees a couple days ago and was stung over 500 times on his head and shoulders. He only escaped by getting into his pickup and killing the bees able to get inside with him.
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