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Author Topic: Florida at the Precipice of Depression
Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-09-2008 10:10 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A friend sent me this article....an interesting tangent to our Gas Price thread:

Posted by Mike Morgan, J.D., CRS, GRI on 06/05/2008 03:59 PM
quote:
Florida at the Precipice of Depression

I was going to call this 'Banks March Us Into Depression,' or maybe more fitting is . . . 'Complete Collapse of US Banking System.' Folks, that is what we are looking at. I don't see any way around it. What we're seeing here in Florida, is your crystal ball. And what happens here, is coming to a town near you . . . soon.

This past week I didn't write anything, because what I am seeing unravel is disturbing to the point I had to question what I was seeing and hearing. So I decided to take as much time as I needed to digest it all, and then put something together for you. So here goes . . .

I could prepare volumes of spread sheets with Bernankesque numbers. I could talk about commodity prices and oil and third world politics and a dozen other metrics that all lead to the same conclusion. But let me give you a ground zero look. That's what I do best. I will leave the manipulation of the numbers to the folks on Wall Street that do it best. The same folks that have created the precipice they will soon push us off.

I spend a great deal of time dealing with Asset Managers hired by banks stuck with REOs. So as not to re-hash the events leading to the housing crisis, I will not discuss the free-money policies of the past, and I will not discuss the absolute lack of accountability in making the bad loans of the past. Let's just deal with how the banks are attempting to recover.

Unfortunately, banks are not making a realistic effort to address the crisis. That may be because they cannot. As the banks and builders have announced write down after write down, my mantra has been . . . and continues to be . . . NOT ENOUGH - NOT ENOUGH - NOT ENOUGH. I still believe that. The builders and the banks have underestimated the magnitude of the problem, and they continue to do so. Analysts continue to look at the rear-view mirror and attempt to manipulate numbers based misguided historical assumptions. NAR and the economists continue to twist the numbers, lie and then slip in prior-month adjustments without actually comparing apples to apples. But that is another article. The bankers and the fat cats on Wall Street sit back and watch the carnival, collecting fees from everyone they can snooker.

I have recently started turning away REO properties from banks and asset managers, even though hundreds of thousands of real estate agents nationwide are lined up waiting for these listings. I made the decision because we have reached a point where these listings are costing us money, and the asset managers are squeezing harder and harder . . . because they can. There are GREAT asset managers and there are incompetent ones. The majority fall into the incompetent bucket, but we eliminate them quickly. The banks, on the other hand, continue to throw away money with the bucket of incompetent managers. It seems like the mortgage brokers that pushed funny money for the last six years are now starting asset management companies. We still work with a number of asset managers and banks directly, but the list of asset managers is growing smaller as properties fail to sell. When that happens, properties are bundled up and sold in bulk or at auction. This puts further downward pressure on markets because of lower prices and the inventory was not absorbed . . . it just changed hands.

Banks cannot afford to take 50-75% hits on mortgages, and that is exactly what is happening. The precipice is here, and we are on it. Recent reports about home sales rebounding are insignificant, because no one is accurately describing the growing inventory build-up. Banks simply don't have the margins to deal with this crisis. And for that reason, we will see massive bank failures and this will snowball into a complete economic meltdown. If you have an argument against this scenario, I'd love to debate you on a live conference call. We deal with the banks. We know what is going on before the numbers show up at the Fed or any analysts desks. We deal with the public, so we hear the desperation at all levels. I listen to grown men cry about how to explain to their families that they are losing everything. I listen to people that I fear are on the verge of suicide. I read about people committing crimes simply to put food on the table. Spend a week with me, and you'll understand why there is no feasible way to avoid a Depression.

The banks will fail, just as they failed in 1929 . . . but worse because this time some of this leverage is as high as 40:1. Insurance? Where is that going to come from? There is no insurance that can cover the cost of the coming bank failure, unless we just print more money. We are two generations removed from 1929. I am talking about Biblical 40 year generations. And when you look at who we were in 1929 and who we are now, you'll realize just how ugly it is going to be. In 1929 there was a stronger base of family values. There was a work ethic that we don't see today. The generation from 1929 - 1969 grew up with a totally different set of values than the generation from 1969 - 2009. The first generation worked their way out of the Depression. Today's generation doesn't understand work. We only understand creative financing and how to live off the next generation. And sadly, that is where we are today. We are at the precipice, and we are going to push our children over the edge because we lived so far above our means and ignored all of the warning signs. We lived just like the Romans in their final days.

Harsh? Like I said, spend one week with me, and you will go home with a new outlook about life, people and the crisis that is unfolding. You will go home with a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach. Guaranteed.

Just Florida? No, but Florida is your crystal ball.

The next generation? I would like to think we will eventually build ourselves out of this Depression with nuclear plants, solar and wind farms, seawater desalinization plants new roads and bridges and state of the art cars and trucks. Unfortunately, who is going to get their hands dirty? For those that study history, how would we manage a WPA with today's generation? It will be a much tougher recovery, because we have lost the fundamentals that made us the greatest country in the world.

Mike Morgan is one of the top realtors in Florida and handles lots of foreclosures & bank deals.

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 06-09-2008 11:13 AM      Profile for Lyle Romer   Email Lyle Romer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Geez....could that be any more depressing.

I'm sick of all this gloom and doom crap. First of all, this guy is part of the industry that created the crisis. The Realtors were making out like bandits on commission selling houses at unrealistic prices to people that had no business buying a house in the first place.

The mortgage "crisis" has been predicted to peak sometime this year because it is now 3 years after the peak in 3 year ARMs being written. Everything isn't rosey but the issue I have with all this doom and gloom garbage is that somewhere around .1% of Households are in foreclosure. That means that 99.9% of households are NOT in foreclosure. The media and all these doom and gloom people get the whole country thinking that they are 1 paycheck away from losing their home.

The reporting should say basically, if you bought a house with a mortgage that you could afford and you still make the same amount of money (or a little more) you will be fine if you have a fixed rate mortgage. Instead, they slap headlines about a "sub-prime mortgage crisis" and "record foreclosures". Most people don't even know what a sub-prime mortgage is. To translate it means people that have bad credit and aren't responsible enough to handle any mortgage who are then given high interest and adjustable mortgages to offset the risk of foreclosure.

The banks created this crisis by giving out these loans. It then drove the prices up because more people could "afford" to buy a house. Everything snowballed and you got people buying overpriced houses with adjustable mortgages. As the prices grew so did the amount the payments would balloon to when the mortgage adjusted.

The one good point in that article is the one about work ethic. So many of today's generation grow up with a feeling of entitlement to everything without having to work for it. The message to the youth is go to college, get a degree and then get a cushy office job that pays a lot where all you have to do is write emails and go to lunch.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 06-09-2008 12:20 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I remember this happening in the mid-80s when I was living in Texas. We got a house for a song.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 06-09-2008 02:06 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pretty much the same thing is happening here (see the HPC site), although only the most apocalyptic of doom-mongers are suggesting that the house price crash has the potential to bring down the entire banking system. It has brought down one bank (Northern Rock), though, and is probably in the process of bringing down another (Bradford and Bingley), both of which depended on being able to raise money in international credit markets for lending as buy-to-let mortgages.

For proof that history repeats itself, have a look at the chapter entitled 'Home, Sweet Florida' in Lewis Allen's book Only Yesterday: An Informal History of the 1920s. His description of the property bubble which happened there in the late '20s is eerily similar to the bubble and crash which appears to be happening on both sides of the pond now.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 06-09-2008 02:21 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Lyle Romer
The mortgage "crisis" has been predicted to peak sometime this year because it is now 3 years after the peak in 3 year ARMs being written.
Those predictions have often been rosy to a suspect level. The predictions certainly have not been taking into account the effect of rapidly rising living costs are having on the real estate market. The real estate market downturn is being prolonged as long as costs keep rising elsewhere. Some market locations may be permanently ruined.

For instance, there is a glut of vacant "McMansion" style properties for sale in extended suburbs of major cities in most parts of the nation. An exclusive article at the Bloomberg web site speaks about this in detail. Many of these houses are sitting empty because no one wants to move into them and spend a fortune on gasoline commuting 40 miles each way. Most of these properties are poorly served by mass transit. Rising utilities costs worsen the appeal of those homes. Add rising property taxes and maintenance costs to the mix. Lots of McMansions in the "exhurbs" have lost more than 1/3 of their assessed value.

The situation in Florida is worse in many ways.

For one, it saw some of the most crazy home price inflation in the nation during the real estate boom. The consequence is many people are upside down on their mortgages to an extreme level. Many have no other alternative than to just walk away from the properties.

Florida is also home to a huge number of retired people. Many have income levels with little wiggle room to absorb skyrocketing costs of gasoline as well as rising costs of food, electricity, water service. Let's not forget health care costs are still inflating like mad and retired people usually need more health care service than other groups. Social security and medicare doesn't cover all those costs either. That all adds up to make the situation worse -worse enough to cause financially responsible people to still go broke and lose their homes anyway.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-10-2008 12:19 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Lyle Romer
Geez....could that be any more depressing.

I'm sick of all this gloom and doom crap. First of all, this guy is part of the industry that created the crisis. The Realtors were making out like bandits on commission selling houses at unrealistic prices to people that had no business buying a house in the first place.

Yah, I know we don't like to face depressing news, but as you say, this guy is part of the industry that created the crisis -- so who would be better equipped to evaluate the situation? I don't pretend to know enough to understand this guy's article, but it sure doesn't sound like he's just talking gloom and doom for the hell of it or that he's got an agenda to sell anything. Even if he is only half right, it sure doesn't sound like a pretty picture.

Hell, I'm buyin gold. [beer]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-10-2008 07:49 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We are not seeing this happen in Utah for what ever reason eason I didn't hear. Salt Lake City was stamped a recession free city by Forbes Magazine... one of just ten in the country that doesn't have the mortgage problem at least on a large scale. Building slowed down for a brief period about a month ago but is beginning to rev back up again. Even gas here is still around 3.809 a gallon.

Mark

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