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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
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Author
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Topic: Airline industry economics are truly retarded
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 07-07-2008 07:06 AM
This has to be the height of craziness.
I've been looking for flights for a trip to a conference in Savannah, GA, in November. The cheapest I've been able to find a single, through booked ticket from my local airport (Teesside / MME) is £652. I know the oil price rises have pushed air fares up, but this is almost double what I normally pay for a trip to a US regional airport. A friend suggested that I look at flights to the nearest major hub and then finish the journey by hire car or train, as this may be a lot cheaper (why I'm bothering I don't know as work are paying, but the travel budget is limited and if I can keep the costs down that potentially frees up money for someone else to go on a conference trip, too).
He was right, alright - Teesside to Washington DC on the same dates, with the same airline and including a week's car hire is only £380 (or £310 without the car)!
Now here's the truly retarded part. The routing for the £652 Savannah ticket is Teesside-Amsterdam-Memphis-Savannah. For the £310 Washington DC ticket, it's Teesside-Amsterdam-Memphis-Washington National. Four of the six flights which make up the total round trip are exactly the same in both cases. Furthermore, the trip which is less than half price involves traveling, I would guess, around 500-600 extra miles in total! So, KLM is charging over twice as much to travel a shorter distance! And those extra miles in the air plus the road or rail trip won't do my green credentials much good, either.
The papers are talking about the prospect of major airlines going bust if the oil price stays at current levels. If this is the way they price their tickets, I'm not surprised! Perhaps Paul or someone can reveal that this isn't quite as insane as it looks on the surface, but I certainly can't figure it out.
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John Hawkinson
Film God
Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-07-2008 08:39 AM
Leo, airline pricing is demand based (at least in the US).
The cost to fly somewhere is not directly proportional to the distance traveled. For hundreds of reasons, including subsidies for smaller markets, fees at particular airports, hub structures of individual airlines, competition with other airlines, even wind patterns, etc.
So this sort of anomaly is not a surprise. It's a natural consequence of the system.
(The really special ones are when you find a roundtrip fare A/B/C/D,D/C/B/A is actually cheaper than A/B/C,C/B/A. There was quite a while where it was cost-effective to buy a roundtrip ticket when you wanted to travel one-way and throw away the second half of the ticket. But the airlines put in rules to make that very difficult.)
--jhawk
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 07-07-2008 10:02 AM
Many thanks folks. The plan I'm working on at the moment is to fly to DC, stay with a friend there (who, along with several other people, is also going to the same conference) the weekend before, and then we all drive down the day before it starts. There's a chance that I'll need to be there a day earlier than the others, but in that case Amtrak at $80 to turn up and ride seems like a good solution. I did check out flights to Atlanta, but everything I could find came in between £450-500. It was only the DC ones which were much cheaper. Perhaps this might be because I am traveling immediately after the Presidential Election (my plan at the moment is to fly in to DC on Friday 7 November and out again on Monday 17th), and so the airlines are anticipating that all the demand will be in the other direction?
quote: John Hawkinson
Leo, airline pricing is demand based (at least in the US).
[edit]
So this sort of anomaly is not a surprise. It's a natural consequence of the system.
I expected an element of that, but am surprised that it's that much. Given that the only difference in the two routings is the last (US internal) flight, I can only presume that the Memphis to Savannah flight is always in very high demand, even in the middle of November, and that therefore they can effectively charge what they like for it.
quote: Lyle Romer
You might want to look into booking the trip to Atlanta. There is a Low Cost Airline (Airtran) that flies atlanta to savannah. The atlanta to Savannah leg should only cost about $60 - $80 each way.
The only problem making a connection from a legacy airline onto a LoCo is that if your incoming flight is late and/or your checked baggage doesn't make it then, basically, you're fooked. As the baggage is not checked through (you've got to reclaim it and then check it again) and you can't get a refund for any missed connecting flight, it is a risk. To be safe you've really got to factor in an overnight stay at the connection point. I did risk it in February connecting from Southwest to KLM at Los Angeles, with my incoming flight arriving at 10am and the outgoing one not leaving until 6pm. In the event it was all fine, but I'd have had a serious problem if my checked baggage hadn't turned up.
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Chris Slycord
Film God
Posts: 2986
From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007
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posted 07-07-2008 11:25 AM
quote: Leo Enticknap
I can only presume that the Memphis to Savannah flight is always in very high demand, even in the middle of November, and that therefore they can effectively charge what they like for it.
It's a different reason than you think, I believe.
An airport in DC is going to be much, much bigger than one in Savannah. As such, there are going to be lots of flights from lots of airlines going to it. So if they tried charging an arm-and-a-leg for there, people would shop around and find something more to their liking. But with a smaller airport, you'll find less airlines servicing it and of the ones that do, they have less options of flight times as well so with the less options you have the higher the price will be.
Plus, like other people said, you could also save money by flying in to Atlanta since it's a bigger airport as well. Adding to that, you'll save money on driving since DC is a lot further away from Savannah than Atlanta.
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Charles Greenlee
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 801
From: Savannah, Ga, U.S.
Registered: Jun 2006
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posted 07-07-2008 06:21 PM
Generally to get to Savannah, you'll want to fly into Atlanta, or Jaxsonville, Fla. depending on the airline and which is cheaper. Then you'll simply want to drive on in by car. The drive between Savannah and Atlanta, well more specifically between Macon and Savannah on I-16, can be boring so make sure you have some music or a friend. I guess that you might be able to ride a bus on in, but that'll take a while. Trains? Forget it. A train has to route you all the way back up to I think near Washington D.C. and then back down. There used to be the "Nancy Hanks" which serviced directly between Savannah, and Atlanta, but that stopped long ago. As far as a short hop plane ticket, last I checked, they were still more expensive than driving. But I don't really fly, just information that I've gathered from my friends that do. And to the left, you can see, I live in Savannah. At least until I can get a job in Atlanta. Maybe we'll go hit lunch or something.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 07-08-2008 01:49 AM
quote: Louis Bornwasser
Try Gatwick to Cincinnati to Atlanta; return may not matter: try ATL to Gatwick.
The problem with that is getting to Gatwick. Starting at a little regional airport at this end has two big advantages - getting to and parking at is both quick and cheap, and using the KLM connection through the Amsterdam hub avoids the need to go through Heathrow or Gatwick, a process which varies between a nightmare and living hell. It's a bare minimum of five hours overland and £100 from where I live to any of the London airports with long-haul service, and after that you've got the hour-long queue for security screening. With Teesside the total time from leaving home to in the air is usually less than two hours, and the cost around £25. So there would have to be one helluva good deal starting from London to tempt me.
quote: Steve Guttag
It all depends on the airline. It prevents me from being "brand loyal" since I have to choose the airport to get the most reasonable fair. The difference in distance between the three is trivial! Living in Annapolis, BWI is my preferred. When I lived in Bethesda, MD, Dullas was my preferred...but that place has changed a bunch, for the worse and TSA has made it the worst line up that I've come across.
I guess you have the opposite profile of advantages and disadvantages starting at a little airport with only five or six flights a day. The plus is that there is virtually no queue anywhere (for incoming flights, 15 minutes from touchdown to driving out of the car park is normal), but the minus is a very limited choice of airlines. My KLM brand loyalty isn't really out of choice, but more because they've got a monopoly on people trying to escape from Yorkshire but without going through Heathrow.
quote: Charles Greenlee
And to the left, you can see, I live in Savannah. At least until I can get a job in Atlanta. Maybe we'll go hit lunch or something.
Will be in touch nearer the time - cheers. If you are still in Savannah then, check out the AMIA conference website - there may well be some public screenings as part of the line-up (not finalised as yet).
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