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Author Topic: Old music on CD Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 12-14-2008 03:01 PM                        I grew up listening to Bing Crosby's Christmas recordings with the Andrew sisters first with my parent's very scratchy 78rpm's in the forties and the long play in the fifties. I now have the music on a CD and I am now listening to it on my a small Klipsch speaker system that has an iPod dock for my iPod Touch that has the music I had downloaded on it. Although it is mono, the quality of the sound is fantastic and not scratchy like the 78s. The LP was ok but the cd is wonderful. In addition to the Bing Crosby album, I have a lot of classical music from the past including Enrico Caruso's recordings as well as some by Emelita Gala-Curci, Arturo Toscanini, Rise Stevens, Lili Pons, Robert Merell and many other celebrated artists of the past. Moderen day music artists are great with their wonderful modern recorded sound but it is very thrilling to hear music performances from the past with sound that has been restored but not changed so everyone can enjoy them today. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 12-14-2008 03:05 PM                     Actually it is far proven that an LP has a far more wider frequency spectrum than CD recording. Especially the very lows and the extreme highs are much more noticable in LP's rather than CD's or any other cheap MP3 mean. You can hear the difference. Hearing for example Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms in LP and in CD, I bet you will want to break the CD and go back to buying LP's. Demetris  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 12-14-2008 03:18 PM                        Demitris, I am inclined to agree with you about the sonic range of long plating recordings but the click and the pop and some hiss I could hear when I played them used to trouble me a lot. I still have my huge Lp library as well as my Thorns turntable outfitted with a Shure SME 309 tone arm but I have not listened to my LPs ever since I branched into cds Earlier cds were ok but I have found newly recorded music on the format is magnificent. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Robert E. Allen Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1078 From: Checotah, Oklahoma Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-14-2008 04:32 PM                     Well Claude, I can tell you from my experience that if there's hiss in the sound from an LP it's because it has been played repeatedly on a turntable that has an excessively heavy tone arm. If it pops it's because it's been scratched. I spent 28 years in radio, most of that time as a DJ, and all studio tone arms had counter balances to prevent what you are talking about. In '06 I gave away my 350 record LP collection dating back to the 60s. All of them were "air worthy" because I took very good care of them and would stack any of the up against a CD anytime. Sadly I also gave away a 1962 Zenith console stereo that was in mint condition and would rattle windows.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-14-2008 04:48 PM                     I've noticed the resurrection in the manufacturing of vinyl in limited quanities from Philips/Polydor - kind of like Classic Recordings with Bernie Grundman's "Living Stereo" releases along with other famous label releases on 200g vinyl (which I've heard now that these vinyls are now carbon free...clear vinyl..to definitely eliminate clicks and pops caused by the static that the carbon in the vinyl could create..) from his plant. I bought one of these vinyls ("Who's Next" by the WHO) and made a CD copy of it using a USB device that I branched off of the output side of the external preamp that I have for my turntable connected to my laptop here with the recording studio that came with this device. Thus, I compared it to a factory made "from the original masters" CD and could tell the difference from the two where that analog vinyl just had more warm sound than the processed CD. Sure, the dynamics of the factory CD is more stronger than the vinyl due to groove limitations, but the rest of the playback from the vinyl was more of a good rounded sound.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 12-14-2008 05:42 PM                     I felt the record companies would press too many records resulting in poor sound; reminds me of the quality of prints made today vs. those made 20 years ago. I really remember ABC Dunhill records were the worse, and would get 'skips' just by looking at them! I have several MFSL half-speed records that I have not played in years (I don't even own a player any more!)  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 12-14-2008 06:26 PM                     My late uncle was very much into classical music on vinyl played back through tube amplifiers. At first I couldn't see (or actually, hear) what all the fuss was about, but he taught me to really listen and I began to appreciate the fuller, richer sound on the vinyl disks- - which needless to say, he had kept in 'mint' condition. And there's the rub! Vinyl requires much more care in handling and playing back and even with the best equipment there's a slight deterioration with every playback due to the nature of how the sound must be reproduced. (Unless you've got one of those turntables that can read the grooves with a laser!) But I agree that 'old stuff' that originates from the 78rpm era does sound much, much better when cleaned up with all the new digital technology and released on CD. Also, but slightly off topic, last year I bought the 80th anniversary DVD release of "The Jazz Singer" and was amazed at how they had been able to clean up the original Vitaphone disk sound tracks to where it sounded almost as good as if it had been recorded yesterday. Amazing.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 12-14-2008 07:44 PM                        Jim, I also bought the restored THE JAZZ SINGER on DVD when it was released several months ago. This was not the first time I had purchased this movie on video, I also have the movie on a laserdisc when Warner Brothers released it as part of a box set with other Al Jolson movies. I agree, WB did a fantastic job when they released it on DVD It it very interesting how devotees of long playing records would state how superior the sound is compared to cds. In theory, I agree with everyone but that was not my original thought. My iintent when I started this thread was how wonderful old music that was originally released on 78rpm and other earlier recording methods now sound on a cd. Jim, it seem like you were the only person who understood my intent -Claude  |  IP: Logged Damien Taylor Master Film Handler Posts: 493 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2007 posted 12-14-2008 08:49 PM                     quote: Demetris Thoupis Hearing for example Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms in LP and in CD Japanese pressing of course. I see what you're saying Claude. A lot of music could have been lost to time if the record labels hadn't decided to transfer them to CD, but there were probably more economical reasons rather than preservation ones.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-14-2008 08:49 PM                     To echo on this original topic goes back for me 40 yrs ago in the early to mid '60's: This is when RCA was pressing vinyl for Reader's Digest when RD had a vinyl catalog service of many boxed albums. One of them that really stood out as being a landmark release was the 10 vinyl set of "The Great Band Era". Music from 1936 to 1945 of all of the great and lesser bands during this era. My father purchased this set (and he still has it in posession) for the basis of hearing this music that was popular when he was in the teens (and when he went to war in 1944..) The technology in creating such a set was new to the ears: Hearing these old 78 pressings sounding clean with no shellac rasp, no clicks, pops and sounding like if they'd used tape intead of the old wax mastering that was common in those days. RCA took the metal masters from the supported record companies and pressed a new shellac for this set. They recorded this virgin shellac pressing once on tape to be sent through the electronic processes of removing clicks, pops and all of the abnormalities of shellac pressings. Then the master tapes were enhanced in stereo for the stereo vinyl pressings and both mono and stereo production tapes were then used for the lacquer cuttings. Then, on to the mother and then stamper manufacturing processes. Thus, makes me wonder how they master the recordings for the CD pressings: Found these old master tapes to be used again since it's been told that, esp RCA, eliminated their entire library of metal masters when the Victor campus in Camden, N.J. was demolished...and wonder about Decca, Columbia, Capitol and the host of lesser labels followed suit in ridding of their old 78 masters. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Damien Taylor Master Film Handler Posts: 493 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2007 posted 12-14-2008 09:00 PM                     quote: Monte L Fullmer eliminated their entire library of metal masters when the Victor campus in Camden, N.J. was demolished This story is one of the greatest travesties in the history of record label f**k ups, and there are many of these stories. The following excerpt is from Bill Holland's award winning article on this very problem. You can see the whole article here. "The most spectacular case of wholesale vault trashing is the decision by RCA in the early '60s to demolish its warehouse in Camden, N.J. The warehouse, according to collectors and industry veterans, held four floors of catalogue product, pre-tape-era material ranging from metal parts, acetates, shellac disc masters and alternate takes to test pressings, master matrix books and session rehearsal recordings. Several days before the demolition, officials from French RCA gained permission to go through the building and withdraw whatever material they could carry for their vinyl "Black and White" jazz reissue series. A few American collectors were also allowed in the building to salvage any items they could carry out. A few days later. as dozens of RCA officials and collectors stood on a nearby Delaware Bridge, demolition experts ignited the dynamite charges. Eyewitnesses said they saw "clouds of debris, black and metal chunks flying out the windows" of the collapsing building. The building wreckage was then bulldozed into the Delaware River. A pier was built on top of the detritus."  |  IP: Logged

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