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Author Topic: DVD-R in consumer DVD players Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-08-2010 10:58 AM                     I have had to run the last couple of movies at Mercyhurst on DVD and I have had some troubles getting some disks to read. We have a couple of fairly old players. They are less than 5 years old or less but they seem to have trouble reading burned disks. (DVD-R or DVD+R) It takes them over a minute to recognize the disk and, on occasion, they will not read the disk at all. I'm just wondering what the problem is. I want to know if there is a way to know in advance whether I will have a problem or if there is a workaround. I am often presented with disks at the last minute. I often don't know that the disk is DVD-R/DVD+R until I have it in-hand. I am guessing that the DVD player goes through a process of adjusting itself or setting itself to a different mode when it tries to read a given disk. I can take that in stride if I know what goes on at the software/hardware level but I have had a few close calls, lately which I would like to avoid if I can. My current solution is to put the disk in the player well before the show is supposed to start, let the disk recognize then let the program run for a few minutes. After I know it will run, I stop the show and leave the disk in the player and make sure the power stays ON. It seems that, once the player has "latched onto" the disk, everything runs all right. My boss is the Type-A personality and he doesn't have any tolerance for these kinds of inconsistencies. There was one instance where I played the disk for about 20 minutes, pre-show for a test screening, then played the entire show for an audience without incident but, when running the second show, the disk started to skip then finally stalled and dropped out. I never took the disk out of the player. I never shut the power off. I just pressed the "Play" button on the menu screen each time but it still had problems on the subsequent show. I have also had problems with home-burned disks which would not play after the player sits idle for more than a few minutes. In these cases, the player had to be shut off, restarted and the disk had to be reinserted before it would run. This happened during a live show with customers in the hall. On each of these times, I get called into my boss's office afterward and I have to try to answer for it. Each time, I tell him, "That's just the way DVD player behave," but he doesn't listen. He just seems to take pleasure in making people grovel. It is my guess that we will need to buy new players. Do you think that this will help solve the problem? We have a Sony Blu-Ray player which is only about 1-1/2 years old. It seems to do a better job but, even that has had trouble. Would buying a "professional" DVD/Blu-Ray deck help? If so, what models do you think would be best?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-08-2010 11:12 AM                     Sounds like you have junk DVD players and people who don't use good blank media (and probably put labels physically on the disc). For about $150 you can get a Panasonic blu-ray player. We have found them to be about as solid as anything and they will play pretty much anything. If you get a questionable disc, COPY IT and play the copy. Don't use cheap media and only label it with a marker.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 11-08-2010 11:19 AM                        You can have a burner that's "off" very slightly in one direction and a player that's slightly off in the other direction. Both may individually be in (or very close to) spec but media that's burned in that burner may not play in that specific player. And there's variations in quality of the media. Basically what Brad said. Try copying the troublesome media in a system that can read it successfully and see if the resulting copy plays ok in the iffy player. Newer players are probably more forgiving of such variations in burned media.  |  IP: Logged Scott Jentsch Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1061 From: New Berlin, WI, USA Registered: Apr 2003 posted 11-08-2010 11:50 AM                        I had a 2nd generation Panasonic DVD player that was rock-solid for most of its life, but about two years ago, it started getting finicky about the discs it would play successfully. Parts wear out, dirt accumulates, and that's just the player side of things. There are many variances in the quality of burns from various drives and DVD recorders, as well as the media that is being used. Some media works better with some burners, and some media works better with some players. The mastering software is also going to play into it, as what works in one player may contain some non-standard or unexpected characteristics that another player can't handle. I agree with the comment that a new player is in order. The non-wifi Panasonic Blu-ray player (DMP-BD65) is only $104 or so, and my guess is that it will be more tolerant of discs than any DVD player made 5+ years ago. At that price, it certainly can't hurt to give it a try! Do you keep a copy of the troublesome discs? It would be handy to be able to run them through any new player you purchased as a good test of compatibility...  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-08-2010 12:19 PM                     We have a Kanguru DVD duplicator. It will copy any non-protected DVD that will fit on a single layer disk. I'll see whether that brings any improvement to the game. I try to insist on name brand media: Memorex, TDK, Verbatim. I try to get people to stay away from no-name media. Still, we get people who purchase semi-name brands Like HP or Kodak because they recognize the name but do not realize that they don't manufacture their own media. Even if Memorex, TDK or Verbatim don't actually manufacture their own media they are, at least, more stringent with their suppliers. Even then, I still get people who bring media to me at the last minute and expect it to play. I just don't have time to give a treatise on disk media to everybody who wants to put multimedia up on our screen. With that, I'll keep the copier in mind. Further, I have three Mac Pros on-site with which I can crack most protected DVDs and reburn them on the internal DVD burners. The Pioneer DVD-RW burners inside the Macs seem to work pretty well. I have few problems with them. In fact, I often use the Macs to check disks which won't play in other machines. 95 times out of 100, if the Macs won't read a disk, that disk can't be read. I will work on getting new players. The problem is that my boss wants us to buy cheap, consumer grade players. They don't last very long, neither are they very good to start with. I'll look into getting more professional or, at least, Pro-sumer decks if they are available. What are some good models/brands to look at? P.S. Although not strictly required, region-free players would be a bonus.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 11-08-2010 12:27 PM                     We play most on a Sony BluRay that is about a year and a half old and keep upgraded. We had similar issues with a couple DVD machines made several years ago. Also for whatever reason, the same DVD looks better on the screen when played on the BD. One problem that often occurs on burned discs is that the person making the disc is in a hurry and fails to close or finalize the disc and rushes to us 10 minutes before his screening and all the machines display "No Disc" a sure sign of not being closed, especially when you can see the recorded area.  |  IP: Logged James Larden Film Handler Posts: 14 From: Montreal, QC, CA Registered: Jan 2010 posted 11-08-2010 12:27 PM                        I have found Oppo and Pioneer (both consumer and professional models) to be the most reliable with playing burned DVD+/-Rs. I screen this sort of material constantly at both my jobs.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 11-08-2010 12:31 PM                     Randy, Brad and Scott both gave you information on Panasonic blu-ray players that are quite good, and both under $150. If your boss won't spend $150 to stop the problems then he deserves the headaches from cheap players. As for region-free, a solid player that is pro grade is the Denon DN-V310 (which now has HDMI out) and can be found at B&H Photo for $550.00 It is rack-mountable and comes with the rack mount kit. The OPPO is quite good but pricey. Pioneer is good too. Despite what Bill said (no offense Bill) stay away from the Sony players!! They require frequent software updates and are too unreliable in my experiences with them in screening rooms.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 11-08-2010 01:38 PM                        Ironically, over the years Sony has always strongly recommended Pioneer burners for PS2 and PS3 game developers burning test discs. Back in the day Sony had proprietary burning software for PS2 development that wouldn't work with anything but a Pioneer burner.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-08-2010 01:58 PM                     quote: Tony Bandiera Jr Despite what Bill said (no offense Bill) stay away from the Sony players!! They require frequent software updates and are too unreliable in my experiences with them in screening rooms. I have had some trouble with our Sony BD player. It is not 100% reliable but still better than the El Cheapo DVD players. I have looked at the Denon and Pioneer players. I like them. If I get the chance, I will push for the center to buy them. If I can get them to purchase one, I'd try for three of them. Two of them would be hooked to the Extron switch. The third would be for backup or for use as standalone. (There are times when we play DVD/BD on the fly and don't use the switch.) Bill, I think the reason why a DVD looks better on a BD player is because they upconvert to 720/1080. Our Extron also upconverts to 1080. In combination with our Christie HD projector, it looks pretty damn good for a DVD. When I burn a disk, ANY disk, I always put it back into the machine from which it was burned and see if it will mount/play. That's just standard procedure, as far as I am concerned. I tell everybody to do the same. I tell them to take the disk ALL THE WAY OUT of the player and reinsert it so it mounts from the ground up. Still, only about half the people even do that. There are days when I have to literally stamp my feet and holler but, even then, people still ignore my advice. I guess you've just got to live with the fact that there 51% of the people in the world are idiots but my boss doesn't see it that way. I am the one who gets called into the office when things fuck up. Not them!  |  IP: Logged James Larden Film Handler Posts: 14 From: Montreal, QC, CA Registered: Jan 2010 posted 11-08-2010 02:49 PM                        I also find having a contract that states that; "any DVDR material must be tested in advance with the client or we can't be held responsible", to be pretty helpful at avoiding this sort of scenario! But that ain't always possible in the real world.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 11-08-2010 04:15 PM                     I don't recommend anything by Sony, it's all crap but as long as it gets its' regular upgrades this one has been fairly good. Testing a disc in a machine that can record usually isn't a test at all because many recording machines and computers can open an unclosed/unfinalized disc but a play only machine can't.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-09-2010 05:12 AM                        Three ideas that have worked for me on various occasions: - re-burn DVD onto quality blanks (I like Taiyo Yuden brand); that gives a backup that you can run a few seconds behind the "show" copy during the show, and also gives a clean disk that has no scratches, fingerprints, etc. - copy DVD files to computer hard disk (requires some effort if DVD is copy-protected) and play off of hard disk (with actual DVD in DVD player running a few seconds behind as a backup during show) - if you have a Beta or Digi-Beta deck that can record, and the running time of the DVD does not exceed the running time of the tape, copy the DVD to tape and play the tape copy during the show I hate DVD shows, but they are unfortunately common. My preference for players is to have two of them--a quality Denon with region-free hacks and a cheapo $29.95 one; the cheap players will sometimes play some disks that the good player won't, and also provide a backup that can run during the show and can immediately be switched to if necessary. I have not yet found a Blu-Ray player that I like.  |  IP: Logged Jeffry L. Johnson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 809 From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 11-14-2010 10:50 AM                        Another highly regarded brand is MAM-A, formerly Mitsui. I've used their CD-R, DVD-R, and/or BD-R for years.  |  IP: Logged

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