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Author Topic: Facebook photo tagging question
Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 04-19-2011 10:22 PM      Profile for Claude S. Ayakawa   Author's Homepage   Email Claude S. Ayakawa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As some of you who are my Facebook friends know, I just photographed the 2011 Stingrey Classic, a Men's bodybuilding and women's figure competition in Honolulu this past weekend and I got a lot of great photographs. Of the eighty one participants, about thirty of them had purchased a photographic package from me because I was the official show photographer. Two of the overall winners are husband and wife but they have not bought any pictures but they did tell me they are planning to do so. They both looked Fantastic and I had posted their pictures along with the other overall winners on Facebook during the past couple of days and I got a lot of good responses from some of my Facebook friends. Among the responses I got was a request by someone who wanted my permission to tag all the pictures of the husband and wife. Because the pictures were not paid for, I turned him down and did not grant permission. Although the images in question on Facebook are small files, would this have given me any cause to to be concerned about photo copyright violation if I had given my permission? If this person was a good friend of the couple, could he have found someway to reproduce the images and given or sold the images to them?

-Claude

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-20-2011 03:18 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't put something on Facebook unless you're comfortable with the material going around the planet being shared, being edited, or otherwise used without you getting any credit or compensation. Sure, you can restrict it to "friends only" or even only certain friends, but once THEY get hold of it they can do whatever they want with it.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-20-2011 07:45 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, putting anything on the internet is the equivalent to standing on your rooftop and shouting to the world.

However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

Could the posting of these photos be good advertising for you?
If so, you could use a little Jujitsu on your client.

1) You can watermark and/or "Digimarc" the photos. ( https://www.digimarc.com/ )

2) You could allow the photos to be posted on condition that they allow you to use the images for advertising purposes.

3) You could also require any photo that's posted on the internet, whether by you or by somebody else, to be accompanied by a link back to your website.

4) All of the above.

By specifying conditions like this, if the other person disobeys, you now have reason to legally nail them to the wall.

I'm not saying that you should allow the photos to be posted but, if you do, this is something to think about.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-20-2011 10:10 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Facebook has settings which allow you to prevent people from tagging photos you post on your own page. If you have tagging enabled you can always delete a tag you don't like. Additionally if someone tags you in a photo on their page you can delete that tag as well.

The image quality with photos posted on Facebook is not so great. I'm not certain, but I suspect FB increases the level of JPEG compression as the images are uploaded. The stuff posted there is going to be grossly inferior to a camera original file or negative.

Still, you can watermark the image visibly or invisibly using different methods to trip up certain people when they grab the images and try to reuse them elsewhere. Facebook images currently have a 720 pixel limit on width and height which makes them useless for print publication (unless the image is little tiny). The main threat is people posting them on other web pages. If you can live with it, plaster your name and the "©" symbol across a vital area of the photo that can't be cropped or easily erased.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-20-2011 03:04 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
I'm not certain, but I suspect FB increases the level of JPEG compression as the images are uploaded.
They do. They resize them as well. In fact you may see a "download" button on many Facebook photos which will allow you to download the higher quality version of the picture, but it displays the crappy quality one every time on the web page.

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 04-20-2011 03:35 PM      Profile for Scott Jentsch   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Jentsch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For professional and hobbyist photographers, Facebook does little to protect the rights of the images posted there. At least Flickr provides some attribution of copyright, but on Facebook, the images are there for all to see and to take and use as they see fit.

The only saving grace is the relatively low resolution of Facebook images, but that doesn't seem to stop people who can't appreciate how artifacted such a small image is when printed on paper at any usable size.

If it were me, I would post the photos with clear copyright and usage text at the bottom of every image. I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that from the viewer's standpoint, and it provides you with the ability to declare your rights and usage terms, as well as a little advertising as well.

People can still crop that out, but they at least would have to perform a deliberate act to do so, and most people would be unwilling to expend even that little bit of effort.

For additional protection, you could place a visible watermark across the image, but doing so would obstruct the view of the image and perhaps be detrimental to the enjoyment of the photos. It's a balancing act between protecting your work, and making it enjoyable to view.

Here's an example of such actions that I quickly created to illustrate (sized to the Facebook-friendly 720 width):
 -

Which of these, if any, are acceptable is completely up to you and your intentions for the photos. In your case, I might find a few interesting shots, put some copyright/ad text at the bottom, maybe a subtle logo somewhere on the image, and in the caption/comments, put in a URL that leads people to where they could buy prints or digital copies if they are interested in doing so.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-20-2011 09:06 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeesh! If you're going to do that to an image, don't even bother uploading it because it really sucks all of the enjoyment out of it. Just keep your pictures to yourself and never show anyone ever. It's the only way to be sure.

Regency Theatres took my pictures that I took for their website. Did they ask me? Nope. Did I care? Not at all.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-20-2011 11:06 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think one of the most nefarious threats regarding photos and artwork uploaded to Facebook is the Facebook company itself. They have come under fire numerous times for sneaking little "gotcha" items into their terms of service. They have at least once tried to claim copyright and ownership on any original media users upload to Facebook. They backed off of it, but I wouldn't put it past the company to try it again.

Low resolution snap shots of friends and whatnot has little if any commercial value to a company like Facebook. If you post more valuable studio photography that either functions at art or could be used as a type of stock imagery, well you have to be more careful about that.

I'm pretty hesitant about uploading certain photos or graphics on Facebook for some of the sneaky stuff the company could do. I've seen other graphics I've created and posted online grabbed and reposted by others. But at least they're not claiming copyright on it.

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 04-22-2011 10:44 AM      Profile for Scott Jentsch   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Jentsch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Joe Redifer
Yeesh! If you're going to do that to an image, don't even bother uploading it because it really sucks all of the enjoyment out of it. Just keep your pictures to yourself and never show anyone ever. It's the only way to be sure.
That's basically the point I was making with the image. You can take measures to protect the content, but if you go too far, you suck the enjoyment right out of it and it defeats the whole purpose of posting it in the first place.

The tricky thing with Facebook (and other sites, like Flickr), is that the user community has certain expectations. Steps that can be taken to protect an image or to leverage some commercial benefit from posting it can be taken as offensive by the community, and you would have been better off never bothering in the first place. It's a balancing act, to be sure.

I think most people either don't know or don't care how much of their lives (and their livelihoods) they are giving away to so-called social media companies. They gladly give away their privacy by providing way too many details, and way too much information about themselves, and in most cases, they get nothing significant in regards to protections, service guarantees, or anything else, in return.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-22-2011 10:53 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All they have is my phone number! 123-456-7890....

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-22-2011 11:13 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, no! That should be 213-867-5309!

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-22-2011 12:04 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jenny, Jenny, who can I turn to?
You give me something I can hold onto
I know you think I'm like the others before
Who saw your name and number on the wall.


Facebook wall, that is.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-22-2011 12:35 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott Jentsch
I think most people either don't know or don't care how much of their lives (and their livelihoods) they are giving away to so-called social media companies. They gladly give away their privacy by providing way too many details, and way too much information about themselves, and in most cases, they get nothing significant in regards to protections, service guarantees, or anything else, in return.
The application 4square is the stupidest one of all. These morons "check in" everywhere they go around town (or the country) so they can be the "Mayor of Exxon Gas station #324". In reality what they are doing is making it REALLY REALLY easy for criminals to watch their stupid posts for a week and then rob them blind when they know they are gone.

Randy, that's just the home phone number. 634-5789 is the office. [Big Grin]

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 04-22-2011 12:54 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That is, only if they have those posts accessible by everyone (or have friends who really are criminals)...

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-22-2011 12:56 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brad Miller
In reality what they are doing is making it REALLY REALLY easy for criminals to watch their stupid posts for a week and then rob them blind when they know they are gone.
Facebook Places does the same stupid thing as FourSquare. I disabled the setting that allows other friends to post a "check in" update if they see me somewhere in public.

I can see the burglary hazard regarding FourSquare or Facebook Places turned around on itself. A maniac secretly bent on seeing what it is like to murder someone could bait a would-be burglar by saying he's at the movies or a number of other places when he is really at home waiting with a loaded shotgun.

quote: Chris Slycord
That is, only if they have those posts accessible by everyone (or have friends who really are criminals)...
A lot of posts on Facebook are visible to everyone or to friends of friends, which could be a huge number of people. I have some friends on FB who have more than 1000 friends. Certainly they don't know that many people, at least not personally enough for them to be considered friends or even acquaintances. Some people on Facebook turn the number of friends they have into some kind of contest. Same thing goes for certain people on Twitter with how many are following their tweets.

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