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Topic: Jurassic Park: Mixed for Dolby Digital??

Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 11-06-2011 11:22 PM

I wasn't entirely sure where to put this post so I figured I'd start in Yak.

Was reading on another forum about the Jurassic Park Blu-ray and someone posted this:

quote:
Yes, the sound mixers at Skywalker worked hard, but this film was originally mixed and mastered for Dolby Digital...and that's the way it was released overseas. The DTS decision was very late in the game and as a result many prints went out in the DTS-S (2.0 stereo) format only. Also it wasn't equalized for DTS so JP sounded quite harsh in a lot of installations. Even in the discrete multichannel version there was no .1 (it ended up 5.0 on the disc): the bass was low pass filtered to the LFE/subwoofer.

So the home versions in both DD/DTS/DTS-HD MA sound much better than they did theatrically, plus the bonus of them having been what the sound mixers originally intended.

Of course, no source is cited. Anyone care to offer insight?

AJG

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-07-2011 04:36 AM

quote: Some butthead on another forum
this film was originally mixed and mastered for Dolby Digital...and that's the way it was released overseas.

He's talking through his butt.

AFAIK, Jurassic was ONLY in DTS for the original theatrical release...it certainly was that way here.

The DTS was absolutely 5.1.

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Peter Castle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 11-07-2011 05:20 AM

Doesn't (or was it didn't) DTS contain its sub signal in the surround channel?
So the comment that the original DTS only was 5.0 was 'sort-of'
correct.
It did have a great sub signal back in 1993 in DTS.

And DTS-S was DTS's stereo signal, as the original DTS movies did not have a Dolby-certified analog track.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-07-2011 05:34 AM

Actually, Jurassic Park DID have a Dolby Stereo analog track...Type-A, as I recall. It was one of the only ones...then DTS came up with their DTS-Stereo encoder.

The DTS decision was not really a late one at all. In fact, the JP previews had a DTS track on them so theatres could test their systems somewhat in advance of receiving the feature.

-Steve

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1869
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 11-07-2011 07:34 AM

Some original release prints had the Dolby "Spectral Recording" logo, and were SR. Most were Dolby A.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-07-2011 07:47 AM

One of the key things I remember reading about the sound production of Jurassic Park was how it was mixed first and foremost for digital sound and then the mix was later tailored for optical analog. I think this was published in Widescreen Review. Previously most films were mixed with the optical track in mind, with those dynamic range limitations taken into account.

Regardless of the claims made in the quote at top I thought Jurassic Park sounded excellent. Very dynamic. But then I watched it for the first time in a really great movie theater.

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 11-07-2011 10:18 AM

quote: Some knucklehead wrote this
Yes, the sound mixers at Skywalker worked hard, but this film was originally mixed and mastered for Dolby Digital...and that's the way it was released overseas. The DTS decision was very late in the game and as a result many prints went out in the DTS-S (2.0 stereo) format only. Also it wasn't equalized for DTS so JP sounded quite harsh in a lot of installations. Even in the discrete multichannel version there was no .1 (it ended up 5.0 on the disc): the bass was low pass filtered to the LFE/subwoofer.

So the home versions in both DD/DTS/DTS-HD MA sound much better than they did theatrically, plus the bonus of them having been what the sound mixers originally intended.

Where did you read this, Aaron? This sounds like the type of crap I often read over at blu-ray.com. It's stuff like this that makes me feel like the Internet is the worst thing ever invented.

Perhaps some confusion exists because in the months just prior to the release of Jurassic Park, Universal did release a couple of their films in Dolby Digital (Matinee and Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story). Had DTS not come along and tested well, Jurassic Park probably would have been released in Dolby Digital and/or 70mm Six-Track Dolby. Anyway, it was the sequel, The Lost World, that was released in Dolby Digital in some overseas markets.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 11-07-2011 11:53 AM

quote: Peter Castle
Doesn't (or was it didn't) DTS contain its sub signal in the surround channel?

I do recall reading this in DTS documentation. The LFE (.1) is derived by applying a band-pass filter to the surround audio. Anything below 80Hz is routed to the Subwoofer output.

I remember querying their claim that their surround tracks were 20Hz-20kHz. It really ought to be stated as 80Hz-20kHz.

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Daniel Schulz
Master Film Handler

Posts: 387
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 11-07-2011 12:09 PM

Jurassic Park was definitely mixed with DTS as the intended presentation format: Steven Spielberg had seen an early demo of the system, and instructed his post team to target using DTS for his next feature, which was Jurassic Park. Spielberg (and Universal) were among the initial investors who took DTS from being a concept to a company in time for the Jurassic Park release.

You recall correctly how DTS handles the subwoofer and surrounds, but the mixers were well aware of where the frequency cutoff filters were. In those days it was viewed not so much as a limitation, but as a recognition that the surround channel chain was not capable of full range anyway, and it was a clever way to package more digital data in less space. The dubbing stages were provided by DTS with equipment to simulate the playback filters, so the mixers were able to accurately present in theaters the intended soundtrack.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 11-07-2011 01:29 PM

Lots of bad info in the original post.

-DTS uses timecode. It's your setup and disc which determines 2.0 or 5.1 DTS, not the print itself.

-You don't need to specially EQ for DTS compared to Dolby Digital.

-Wondering why the auditorium shook if there was no subwoofer track on the disc. The subwoofer is used in the same exact manner as all other DTS discs.

-The sound of the Blu-ray version is a completely different mix for a channel configuration that didn't exist at the time of Jurassic Park's theatrical release, so the mix couldn't be what they originally intended.

Not sure where your guy got his information, Aaron, but it likely wasn't from a bright place where the sun shines.

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 11-07-2011 01:43 PM

The aforementioned knucklehead.

Reading through the rest of that thread, I am just astonished how dumb many people are.

AJG

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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 11-07-2011 02:22 PM

I had the opportunity to see JURASSIC PARK for the very first time at the Kabuki Theatre in San Francisco with the new sound format because they were no theatres in Honolulu at the time capable of playing movies with DTS 5.1 soundtracks. The presentation at the Kabuki was excellent and I enjoyed my first experience with J.P. very much. Shortly after I returned home, I went to see the movie again in the large auditorium at Consolidated Kahala 8 Theatres with Dolby A sound and it was not as exciting as the way I saw the film in San Francisco. There was one interesting thing about the Kahala showing. Because all of the JURASSIC PARK prints may have been released with the DTS trailer, the Kahala projectionist forgot to remove it and was still been shown with the feature about two weeks after it had opened at that theatre and nationally.

-Claude

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Sean Weitzel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall)
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-07-2011 02:45 PM

Jurassic Park had a duel inventory of 5.1 discs and Stereo 2.0 discs. See these links where it's been discussed before:
http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002982#000000
http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002339#000008

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Victor Liorentas
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 800
From: london ontario canada
Registered: May 2009

posted 11-07-2011 02:46 PM

I know many theaters left it on purposely to mislead...

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-07-2011 08:15 PM

Both the AVS and Blu-ray.com forums are filled with lots of garbage. The "Insider Discussion" area of the Blu-ray.com forum is the only section of that forum I visit with any sort of frequency at all (which hasn't been much lately); it's the only area of the forum that's moderated to a somewhat satisfactory level. The sheer volume of posts in the other sections makes moderation a daunting task. That leads to LOTS of wrong information being posted.

IMHO, the Home Theater Forum is a good bit better. Guys like Robert Harris are more active there. I still prefer Film-Tech out of them all. FT is the only place with in depth discussions about the "nuts and bolts" process behind showing movies in theaters.

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