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Author Topic: CinemaCon sound: Why does it have to be so FREAKING loud? Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-26-2012 02:58 AM                        It is 12:30am as I am typing this and my ears are still ringing from the Sony presentation which was held this afternoon at CinemaCon. The sound system installed for the convention is undeniably amazing. The bass it produces can rattle the concrete foundation of the building. But why the hell do they feel the need to play movie trailers at beyond rock-concert volume? Seriously, voices were so loud that it was sometimes hard to understand what was being said. The non-stop action, battle and explosion scenes have blurred into one. Distortion is rampant. It's borderline painful. Now to qualify myself here, I'm a person who loves good loud sound. I get in my vehicle and crank it up to the max. Rock concerts -- I'm there, LOVE good loud sound. But movies should be played at a volume where the dialogue sounds decent, and in every single product reel we've seen thus far the dialogue has just been overly loud, far beyond the threshold of "normal," which means the action scenes are SUPREMELY loud. When you add in the fact that every trailer (even the chick-flick ones) consists of scene after scene after scene where the slightest "thing" happening on screen, from a car crash to a door closing, is punctuated by a huge BOOOOM in the soundtrack, and almost every cut is two seconds or less in length, the whole thing just becomes a mind-numbing mess. I literally can remember almost nothing about the trailers we've seen over the past couple of days. Probably not the results they were going for. As long as I'm ranting about sound, I would also like to ask: What is the deal with "dance" music? Every party, every screening, EVERYTHING here is preceded or followed (or in the case of the parties, wallpapered) with wall-to-wall Lady Gaga or the like. Here again, I love me some good music. Love it loud. Love it REALLY LOUD. But not while trying to converse, network, or "think." At Disney's "dinner" last night, they played the soundtrack from "Brave" which was also too loud, not to mention being lousy party/dinner music, but it least it didn't have the constant BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM of other events we've been to so far. I know the whole thing is meant to excite, inspire or "pump up" the folks but we have one day to go and I'm just feeling numb. (Maybe I should stop by this bar in the casino.) If any of you guys "in the know" can tell me why the convention feels it necessary to play movie trailers far louder than any theater should ever play them, I would love to be enlightened.  |  IP: Logged Jeffry L. Johnson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 809 From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 04-26-2012 09:33 AM                        The client sets the level.  |  IP: Logged Martin McCaffery Film God Posts: 2481 From: Montgomery, AL Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-26-2012 12:08 PM                        quote: Mike Blakesley I know the whole thing is meant to excite, inspire or "pump up" the folks but we have one day to go and I'm just feeling numb Inasmuch as the purpose of the event is to sell you stuff, maybe they are just softening you up for the kill  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 04-26-2012 01:28 PM                        Also this year, I think Russell Allen is not there to tune and ride the room (the Colosseum). Don't know who has that duty this year.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-26-2012 06:47 PM                        quote: Jeffry L. Johnson The client sets the level. Well I assumed that. The client(s) must all need to have the wax cleaned out of their ear canals. At least the preshow music today at the Fox and Universal presentations was good movie music, rather than a top 40 dance-a-thon.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 04-26-2012 09:52 PM                        The fact is they don't know much about sound. They probably had a shitty EQ. If the trailers were loud but the rest wasn't so bad, then they simply adjusted the volume for the feature. They were too stupid to realize that trailers are much, much, much louder. Please complain to them. Only complaining to us won't let them know how shitty they are.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-27-2012 01:45 AM                     Mixers often forget the playback volume is every bit as important as the mix. Moreso than anything else though, I find typically whoever is there sweating it out because he/she is trying to impress the audience wants it turned up, and it is their nervousness urging them that it isn't loud enough. In 99% of these situations it is the director responsible, but even at a private show of the Dolby Atmos it happened (and it makes sense since they were the ones nervous wanting to make sure everyone was impressed). When we entered, an Atmos mix of a rainstorm was playing. It would have been 100% convincing had it been played half a dozen db lower. Instead someone went for the fader deciding "louder is better". As it was, since the volume was a little bit louder than reality (due to the distance of the thunderstorm and rain falling above), it wasn't as effective. EQ is also really important. Whoever was on the controls of the Barco demo at the pool needs to understand "more presence is NOT better". The first minute was WAY too shrieky. Regardless, louder is not always better. There IS a sweet spot. (Disclaimer - Dolby Atmos is going to be the best thing to ever happen to cinema sound and Barco's demo was spectacular. I only used those as examples because they were in my most recent memory.)  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 04-27-2012 02:22 AM                     Forgive me for not knowing exactly how EQing a house works, but aren't there standards to be followed? I mean, why is there such a wide variety of EQing jobs being done out there, even within the same multiplex. Why can't anyone seem to get this right anymore. I haven't heard a great EQ since I saw the Dark Knight in the Loewe's auditorium in NYC in 2008. The Chinese sounded nice, but alas, the room is a bit live. AJG  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-27-2012 02:58 AM                     I blame a lot of it on digital cinema. In the days of film, a (good) sound tech would get their hands on a leftover reject reel or two that the distributor never picked up that had a good sound mix and claim it for their tool kit. After watching the reel many times in a properly calibrated auditorium, a good sound tech can in a sense memorize how each bit of sound in the reel SHOULD sound. Then after each EQ is performed with their test equipment, the reel could be ran a couple of times to make sure everything sounded right. I have probably ran my reel a couple thousand times and when I have it I can make an entire complex sound exactly the same from room to room. Without it only using the D2 or other pieces of audio, there will be differences. My reel is however made up of a dozen different clips of varying content and I know how every little nuance is supposed to sound. In digital, there is such a tissy over piracy that this is not possible. Techs are left with checking their work on trailers and sound logos, of which are massively over-produced and designed to sound great in all sort of not-so-great sound systems. Rarely are there stretches of well recorded dialogue either without extraneous explosions and music, as that is critical. Regardless, people are calibrating to the meter (or letting the machine self-EQ) and calling it great sound. This usually ends up in OVER-EQing.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 04-27-2012 02:10 PM                     That makes a lot of sense Brad...and it sounds like what I've done at home over the years when I get new gear or change places of living. I've always said any tech that relies solely on the measurements and not real world testing is fully doing their job. By the way, I'd be curious to know what was on your test reel. AJG  |  IP: Logged Sean Weitzel Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall) Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-27-2012 02:28 PM                     An eldery retired projection tech I know used reel 2 of Empire Strikes Back when he was installing Dolby systems back in the 80's  |  IP: Logged Victor Liorentas Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 800 From: london ontario canada Registered: May 2009 posted 04-27-2012 02:36 PM                     Reel 2 of Empire has some great sound!  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 04-27-2012 03:37 PM                     One of my test reels is all trailers, including the General Cinema "Space Candy" policy and the first Ultra*Stereo snipe (which is a great wow and flutter test). One trailer in particular has proven very handy as a test....for the British film "Beautiful Thing". If the room is not spot-on in EQ you cannot understand all the British accents. Other trailers include a "Twelfth Night" trailer with a very marginal Dolby Digital track (on a perfectly calibrated reader it will read 6's at best, on anything else it's so much F's that the sound freaks out) and a Jurassic park trailer where the jeep rolls off the side of the screen, I play that in SR to check channel placement and levels. I have the "Dolby Surround Fanfare" (the early one that doesn't say DOLBY SR in the tag.) Anyone know where I can get the later one that was SR (and SRD?) I also have random other test film reels which I will not disclose publicly, I can say I have the "Buzz and Bill Show" DTS reel.  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 04-27-2012 05:53 PM                     Tony, Compudigital Industries is selling the Dolby cat. 451 "Mancini" Dolby fanfare SRD (Flat) logo for $28.00 . They have a listing over on ebay.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 04-27-2012 07:04 PM                     Is that trailer still available from Dolby? AJG  |  IP: Logged

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