Film-Tech Cinema Systems
  Home     Products     Store     Forum     Warehouse     Contact Us    
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Credit card compromise (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Credit card compromise
Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

- posted 11-03-2012 03:08 PM      Profile for Frank Cox   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Cox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just got a phone call from American Express stating that they have an "out of pattern" purchase on my wife's credit card. A $20 purchase from Apple.

I checked with her and she stated that she has never ordered anything from Apple. Why would she? We run exclusively Linux here, she has a "dumb cell phone" and my phone is a Samsung Galaxy S3 that runs on Android. Accordingly, her card has now been cancelled and they will send her a new number next week. The person who called told me to check the next statement carefully for fraudulent charges and call the customer service number if there is a problem.

This is interesting in a couple of ways. First, American Express must have some really clever anti-fraud software running there. Obviously a good thing. Second, I wonder how her card could possibly have been compromised. I checked her last month's purchases (which match her purchases every month) and she's bought stuff from Sears, Costco, a large shoe store in Regina, Amazon, and two online fabric retailers, both of who she has dealt with before.

 |  IP: Logged
Sam Graham
AKA: "The Evil Sam Graham". Wackiness ensues.

Posts: 1431
From: Waukee, IA
Registered: Dec 2004

- posted 11-04-2012 02:10 PM      Profile for Sam Graham   Author's Homepage   Email Sam Graham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you want, you can set alerts on your account to get an e-mail alert any time a non-card present transaction occurs, transactions over certain dollar amounts, etc.

The industry's working to make fraud harder and harder. Still happens, but there's more and more ways to catch on to it quickly.

 |  IP: Logged
Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003

- posted 11-04-2012 04:38 PM      Profile for Rick Raskin   Email Rick Raskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A couple of years ago I had my AMEX compromised while at a conference in San Antonio, Texas. Near as I can figure it was the hotel who skimmed my card number. About a year later my VISA was skimmed, which I think happened at a gas station. In both cases it cost me nothing. I hope the card companies cared enough to go after those scumbags because the pattern of purchases made it relatively easy for me to deduce how to figure out who the culprits were.

 |  IP: Logged
Jeremy Weigel
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1062
From: Edmond, OK, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

- posted 11-04-2012 10:22 PM      Profile for Jeremy Weigel   Email Jeremy Weigel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I doubt the CC companies go after anybody unless its a huge amount. Im sure they absorb it and write it off and jack up the fees on everyone else.

 |  IP: Logged
Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

- posted 11-05-2012 02:38 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Rick Raskin
About a year later my VISA was skimmed, which I think happened at a gas station.
Happened to me at a gas station in San Bernadino. The place changed hands and suddenly started selling the cheapest fuel in town. There turned out to be a reason why - two days after filling up, there was an attempted $700 debit by a business in Tijuana. My card was a pre-pay foreign currency card (as in, you transfer credit onto it from a British bank account, which is then converted to dollars and the thing works just like a normal Mastercard) and there wasn't that much on it, and so the transaction was rejected and I got an email telling me so. The card issuer was very efficient about it, and had a new card to me - in California - within three days. As a result of that, I'd recommend a FairFX card to any Brit visiting Europe or the US - they don't screw up and their exchange rates are very reasonable.

I know that the gas station was the culprit, because hundreds of people were similarly stung before the operation was closed down - it was all over the local paper and pretty much everyone within a ten-mile radius knew someone who'd been done.

 |  IP: Logged
Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 11-05-2012 05:56 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This has happened to me before. I got a small charge (~$15) from some company that I had never heard of before. I called them, but they did not answer the phone when I called them. They also did not have any online presence. These things struck me as odd, so I called my credit card company and they cancelled the charge.

I would suggest that you insist on a new credit-card number. That way, it is unlikely that your account will be fradulently charged again if it has already been compromised.

I have no idea how it happened in my case. I don't use credit cards very often and am careful when I do. I was told that compromises sometimes involve attempts at trying random numbers (yes, really). They usually begin with small charges and work their way up to larger ones.

 |  IP: Logged
Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 11-05-2012 09:18 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some card companies have programs in place that when you are making purchases on line, the card company generates a phantom, one-time use transaction number that expires right after you place the order -- the vendors you are buying from never see your actual credit card number nor can there be any shenanagans with the amount they are able to charge because the transaction number they have is only good for that specific amount. It's a good system. I know CitiBank has such a plan and I believe Chase does as well. In this digital age, there is no reason why all credit card companies/banks can't institute such simple consumer protection practice.

A CPA once told me that it's a good idea to change my credit card number at least once a year. Just call the card company and tell them you want a new number. If they balk, then just call back the next day and tell them you've lost your card. They'll happily send you a new one....the big mortal sin for a credit card company is to have one of their indentured servant customers walking around without their card and unable to SHOP.

On the other hand, someone else told me that doing that could have a negative impact on your credit rating because the pigs will penalize you for something that is not your fault, such as your card being compromised or stolen.

 |  IP: Logged
Dennis Benjamin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1445
From: Denton, MD
Registered: Feb 2002

- posted 11-05-2012 12:33 PM      Profile for Dennis Benjamin   Author's Homepage   Email Dennis Benjamin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hackers are always compromising the 'secure' databases of retailers and credit card companies. They usually test their newly acquired card numbers with relativity small online purchases. Those customers who do not notice the small charges to their cards will get hit again and again..

 |  IP: Logged
Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

- posted 11-05-2012 12:54 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Dennis Benjamin
They usually test their newly acquired card numbers with relativity small online purchases.
Exactly - I was surprised that they tried to whack me for $700 straight away. Except possibly millionaires (and let's face it, you're not going to encounter many of them in SB - not that have made their millions legally, at any rate!), anyone is likely to notice that very quickly. If they'd started with $17, they'd probably have got away with it, at least until I checked the next end-of-the-month statement. And it probably would have taken longer for their scam to be exposed and shut down if they'd been stealing small amounts from a large number of customers than it was in the event.

 |  IP: Logged
Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

- posted 11-05-2012 08:57 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When they first introduced single-use credit card numbers, we regularly got people who bought tickets on ticketmaster/fandango using them and then they'd be mad at us that when they'd give us their card it wouldn't print up the ticket and that we'd have to call their card co to confirm/get the actual card number they used.

 |  IP: Logged
David Zylstra
Master Film Handler

Posts: 432
From: Novi, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

- posted 11-05-2012 10:53 PM      Profile for David Zylstra   Email David Zylstra   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jeremy Weigel
I doubt the CC companies go after anybody unless its a huge amount. Im sure they absorb it and write it off and jack up the fees on everyone else.
Actually the CC companies usually pass most of these fraudulant charges to the retailer as "charge-backs", basically the retailer becomes responsible for the fraud unless the purchase was made in person as a "card present" transaction and they can produce a signed receipt. In many cases a disputed online purchase will almost always get charged back due to it having "card not present" status and no signed receipt (we go crazy trying to fight charge backs from online ticket purchases).

 |  IP: Logged
Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

- posted 11-06-2012 12:18 AM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Be aware that this can and does happen with regular "Debit Cards" (as defined as a card where you don't buy on credit but charge against the available balance in your bank account) and many banks don't notify you. When it happened to me, I only found out when I did a balance inquiry on my account and it was down to zero. A charge to some unnamed merchant in the UK was pending but not yet approved. I went to the branch (credit union) and told them about the false charge, they immediately cancelled the card and ordered a new one, and re-credited my account for the $300+ the next day.

If you use your debit card and have online access to your accounts, it is always wise to check the account daily for the 1-7 day period after ANY use of the card to see what charges are pending and/or cleared.

 |  IP: Logged
Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 11-06-2012 05:28 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And this, in short, is why debit cards are dangerous: if the card number is compromised or if a merchant makes a mistake and overcharges for something, your own money is tied up until the situation is resolved. With credit cards, someone else's money is put at risk, and the card issuer has more of an incentive to resolve complaints when the customer refuses to pay for fraudulent or accidental charges.

Also, legal protections for fraudulent credit card charges are greater than for fraudulent debit card charges, at least in the US.

 |  IP: Logged
Jeff Stricker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 481
From: Calumet, Mi USA
Registered: Nov 1999

- posted 11-06-2012 06:07 AM      Profile for Jeff Stricker   Email Jeff Stricker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One of the local gas stations had a pretty low price one day. So I filled one car up, returned home got the other car and filled it, too. Upon returning with the second car, I got a call on the phone. Yup, the credit card company just checking to see if what I was doing was legitimate. Pretty good, in my book.

 |  IP: Logged
Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

- posted 11-06-2012 11:42 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott Norwood
And this, in short, is why debit cards are dangerous: if the card number is compromised or if a merchant makes a mistake and overcharges for something, your own money is tied up until the situation is resolved. With credit cards, someone else's money is put at risk, and the card issuer has more of an incentive to resolve complaints when the customer refuses to pay for fraudulent or accidental charges.
+1. For that reason, I make precisely one debit card transaction each month: to pay off my credit card.

quote: Scott Norwood
Also, legal protections for fraudulent credit card charges are greater than for fraudulent debit card charges, at least in the US.
I think it's roughly the same here, which in effect is that the bank or credit provider has to reimburse you for a fraudulent transaction unless they can prove to a court's satisfaction that you were grossly negligent (e.g. if the police recover the card and find that you've written the PIN number on the back).

There have been some high profile disputes since the total conversion to chip and PIN in 2005(by total conversion, I mean that retailers would no longer allow you to buy something on a card with a signature alone). The banks' line is that the chip is hackproof and that any fraudulent 'card present' transaction can only be the result of customer negligence. Consumers' groups dispute this, claiming that the chips can be hacked. I remember reading about at least one court case in which the card issuer was not able to prove to the judge's satisfaction that the customer was negligent, and was ordered to cough up.

The main difference between credit and debit cards in Britain is that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a credit card issuer must reimburse you if the value of the transaction is over £100 and the goods or services are not delivered. So if I buy a plane ticket and the airline goes bust before the travel date, or if I buy a fridge for delivery next week and the store goes bankrupt during that week, the credit card company has to reimburse me. That is why credit card fees for travel bookings in particular are typically a lot more than the debit card fee for the same purchase: in effect you're buying a mini-insurance policy. But personally I think it's well worth the extra tenner or so.

 |  IP: Logged


All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
- Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.