my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Interesting Read on Film vs Digital (Page 1)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Author Topic: Interesting Read on Film vs Digital Steve Matz Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 672 From: Billings, Montana, USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 06-08-2014 09:02 PM                     The whole Page is interesting but scroll down to the Newspaper Article that ALEX GORDON/ MOTION PICTURE HERALD wrote back in November 1953 on why in his opinion Theaters were losing Audiences and it wasn't because of TELEVISION. Probably a big reason why 3D Fizzled out as quick as it did. Check it out! http://greenbriarpictureshows.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-film-vs.html  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-08-2014 09:56 PM                        Yep bad presentation could be a problem even then. It didn't get invented in the 1990s. When I started projecting, there were often 2 of us in the booth (one working, one hanging out and helping due to having nothing else to do). The boss was downstairs -- he watched every movie, every night -- and if ANYthing went wrong, we could hear him coming up the stairs. Sometimes you'd swear everything was fine and he'd bust in the door saying check the focus, dammit! and we'd find that it was just a hair out of whack. I credit this guy, Don Herndon (seen here at his show-watching post in 1975), for me being the presentation nerd I am today.  |  IP: Logged Robert E. Allen Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1078 From: Checotah, Oklahoma Registered: Jul 2002 posted 06-08-2014 10:52 PM                     I never worked a two-man booth but the IA had a number of them around. And you bet the presentation in those (usually first run) had better be perfect or the union would be in for a big fight for two man booths the next time contract talks came up. I took a great deal of pride in doing the very best I could to put on a good show.  |  IP: Logged Steve Matz Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 672 From: Billings, Montana, USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 06-09-2014 01:45 AM                     I can't remember even as a little kid going to the downtown theaters every Saturday 52 weeks out of the year;ever remember things like Film Breakage,sound flutter,etc. Maybe every blue moon the Focus might change but it was corrected in just a few seconds so you knew the Projectionist was on the ball. A competent projectionist would inspect all the reels when they came from the exchange before exhibiting them. That was just standard procedure.If for some reason the Print you got didn't get a thorough inspection from the last return; it might have anything from torn sprocket holes,bad splices,etc. All of this would have been caught ahead of time before that Reel ever even made it to the Projector. It wasn't until the first Multiplex came here and it was just 3 theaters(CINE 3) that I started seeing things like extended out of Focus times, Bad Sound,Film Flutter,etc. Of course this is when the same guy running the projectors was down selling Popcorn once the Movie started because they were using Platters by then. I remember one time having to go out to the Lobby to get someone back up in the Booth to correct the Focus. This was like after 4 or 5 minutes;thats unexcusable but it happened all the time. It seemed all the Good Competent Projectionists went with the Sunsets.I guess it's that way with almost every profession;your going to have employees that actually care about their job and give 100% and then your going to have the one's just there to do the minimum and collect their PayCheck.  |  IP: Logged Rick Raskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1100 From: Manassas Virginia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 06-09-2014 06:09 AM                     I don't recall ever missing a changeover when I was a projectionist nor did I allow a picture to remain out of focus. If I had, the Union would have been on my case because the chain I mostly worked for (KB) would not have put up with it. What I did encounter however, were some other theaters who in the interest of having the largest possible picture and the shortest possible throw, exceeded the capabilities of the lens technology of the time. That resulted in scope pictures that had to be focused at the center because it was impossible to get proper azimuth alignment across the whole screen. Anybody remember Kollmorgen lenses? Fault of the projectionist -- Nope! One theater chain wanted everything projected 1.85:1 resulting in severe cropping. They did not even have the proper lenses or plates to project 1.33:1. Fault of the projectionist? -- Nope. In fact when I suggest using the scope plates with the scope prime lens and adjusting the masking, I was told it was none of my business. They once showed a special engagement of "An Evening with the Royal Ballet" and the operator had to ride the frame knob in order to keep the dancer's feet in view. Granted, there were some lazy ass operators who could have cared less but a management call to the Union usually got those guys either removed or corrected. I don't advocate film over digital or visa versa. What I'm interested in is the best possible viewing experience, independent of media. I can remember receiving 35mm prints in normal distribution that were damaged and no replacements were available. I can also remember receiving prints within minutes of show time and inspecting reel 2 while reel 1 was on the screen. It seems to me that here were a lot of don't care attitudes out there at the time right from the distributor on down to the in house theater personnel.  |  IP: Logged Steve Matz Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 672 From: Billings, Montana, USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 06-09-2014 11:29 AM                     I'm all for the Practice which you see in a lot of Mfgering/Assembly of having to sign off on what you assembled,built, inspected,etc. When you bought a Z06,LS7 engine optioned CORVETTE; those engines were hand assembled by a Journrymen GM Employee in Wixom,Michigan. He even had his name on your Engine Block;so you know his Competence and Work Ethics was more than likely going to be 100% as his Job could be on the Line. If Film Exchanges had done this ,where who ever inspected/repaired the Print before your theater got it,then your chances that the print was in acceptable shape would probably be pretty good. Even people that are earning minimum wage that still give their all in what ever their Job may be; shows you that they are the type employee you want working for you or at a place you do business with. If a person has to sign off on everything he builds,assembles,inspects,repairs,etc.,then your going to be able to weed out the Lazy Incompetent Bums fairly fast from Business's and the product you buy/receive should generally be in the higher quality category...  |  IP: Logged Martin McCaffery Film God Posts: 2481 From: Montgomery, AL Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-09-2014 12:14 PM                        Of course, the whole point of modern, corporate capitalism is to remove any individual responsibility, from top to bottom. Scapegoats, yeah, they're good with that. I don't know about the car engines you mention, but most things are so atomized they can't claim to be assembled by any one person. Besides, most of the names would be in a language we can't read  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-09-2014 03:01 PM                     MCA Universal when they had their own exchange and depot had a sticker placed on each reel saying revised by....... and date  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-09-2014 04:35 PM                        TES did this in the late '90s and early 2000s. The problem is that the employees there just put their name stickers on the reel bands (usually covering the thing that the string needs to loop around to secure the band) without actually inspecting the prints.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-29-2014 06:32 AM                        Gee, I guess for over a century no one ever got a chance to enjoy any movies at all, let alone any of the great classics, what with them being out of focus and missed or bad change-overs every 18 minutes! I mean, how could anyone know if CITIZEN KANE or CASABLANCA were good movies if they were "consistently" out of focus and the sound to loud or too soft? This guy claimed that New York City and Hollywood LA were the two WORST centers for film projection? Come on; it's one thing to take some license in making a point, but really? At the premiere of GONE WITH THE WIND at Grauman's Chinese, it was out of focus and they missed change-overs? Same with MY FAIR LADY at the Rivoli in NYC...bad changeovers and some guy forgot to thread correctly around the sound drum? Like everyone has already pointed out and we probably have decades of film viewing under our collective belt, a good portion of it as spectators in our youth and lots of it before the advent of the multiplex and platters, and while I can't speak for everywhere else, I watched almost every film title that I now consider beloved classics, all in NYC, in the great theatres on Broadway and I simply did not experience these anomalies this Alex Gordon guy talks about in his gripe-fest letter to the MPH, most of which just seems ludicrous and which the author of the article then uses to seemingly bolster some vague connection he's trying to make between film collection and poor projection practices (evidently in every theatre on the planet), DVDs and his personal inability to properly operate and maintain a 16mm projector at home. Seems he's been soured on film by all those paper cuts he's endured. So his point is....? And btw, this notion that quality projection only existed in the big cities and in the big union houses is also another unfair bias that you hear occasionally...I worked in probably one of the smallest towns in the USA -- College Station, so small they didn't bother naming it -- they just called it the name of the train stop; then they finally combined it with the town next to it to be Bryan-College Station. Anyway, in our theatre (800 seater with a cry room), a first run for that town, the owner would watch many a show from the floor and woe to you if he saw something he didn't like. Every projectionist that worked for him was conscientious and dedicated. I learned a lot from those guys (and one woman, believe it or not) and none of them or any other projectionist in his chain would be nonchalant about any aspect of the craft, changeovers, focus, arc alignment or curtain protocol (yah, we had that). Could you find operators who were slackers, of course, just as in any line of work; but I am sorry, suck-ass shows were not something you saw routinely, Mr. Gordon notwithstanding; he's just off base.  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 06-29-2014 10:26 AM                     quote: Frank Angel At the premiere of GONE WITH THE WIND at Grauman's Chinese, it was out of focus and they missed change-overs? Same with MY FAIR LADY at the Rivoli in NYC...bad changeovers and some guy forgot to thread correctly around the sound drum? That guy must of had the worst seats in the house for the premiere of Gone with the Wind at the Grauman's Chinese Theatre. Because the film premiered across town at the Fox's Carthay Circle Theatre. It's really hard to make a good change-over of My Fair Lady at the Rivoli Theatre when the film premiered at the Criterion Theatre 4 blocks away.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-29-2014 10:53 AM                        Oh Bill, you're so picky. Only 4 blocks away? That's exactly what I mean...those guys were REALLY skilled. Hey, we were so skilled in fact that we were able to run BLOW UP among others, in TWO theatres, one at my theatre in College Station and the other in Bryan and we only had a SINGLE print! That and an old beat up pickup truck. The kid usher would take three reels and truck truck them back and forth between the two theatres. The big worry always was that the truck would break down between on one of the runs and there you were as reel 3 was running out and 4, 5, and 6 were just a dust cloud in the distance. Skill...and nerves of steel, I tell ya!  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 06-29-2014 11:04 AM                     A few years back we were doing a press screening of Apocalyse Now Redux in Times Square at the Broadway Screening Room and we had to bicycle the print with another full screening with the Park Ave Screening Room which was 10 blocks away. We did that a few times with the Magno Screening Room which was 1/2 block away.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 06-29-2014 11:42 AM                        quote: Frank Angel Could you find operators who were slackers, of course, just as in any line of work; but I am sorry, suck-ass shows were not something you saw routinely... The problem now is that suck-ass shows are becoming more common in the remaining theaters that still show film, not so much because of negligent projection, but because most of the 35mm and 70mm prints remaining in circulation are pretty bad - from negligent handling in the past, simple wear and tear, and/or dye fading. Apart from the ones from archives that are anally retentive about where they let their prints go, pretty much all the film prints I've shown since I started at the American Cinematheque about two months ago have had at least one serious defect. I was chatting to one of our volunteers the other day, who told me that her and her husband used to see movies regularly at the New Beverly (the rep theater owned by Quentin Tarantino that has a "35mm only" policy and refuses to screen digital features), but that they eventually stopped because things got to point at which virtually every movie they played was either scratched to hell, dirty, pink or all three. It doesn't matter if the projectionists at that house are all master craftsmen/women: if the prints entering the building are all garbage, then garbage in = garbage on the screen.  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 06-29-2014 11:54 AM                     quote: Leo Enticknap (the rep theater owned by Quentin Tarantino that has a "35mm only" policy and refuses to screen digital features) Quentin has a collection of films that he has bought over the years that have a lot of miles on them.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.