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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Film v Digital - Differences in Presentation Standards (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6   
Author Topic: Film v Digital - Differences in Presentation Standards
Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

- posted 10-03-2014 04:53 PM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So now that the majority of multiplex cinemas have gone digital how are people who go regulary feeling about presentation standards? I want to talk mainly about peoples experiences at standard multiplex cinemas. Are standards better, worse or about the same.

When I mean 'standards' I'm talking about faults - like image being out of focus, wrong format - problems with sound. For what I'm experiencing i'm experiencing faults at shows about the same rate I was with 35mm. Digital has brough it's new problems.

So i'm having a little rant about sound faults: With 35mm my issue was always weather the digital sound was working or not. Becuae I hated Dolby SR. I know some people likes the sound of SR but It gave me a headache. I avoided places that only had SR at all costs and tried to only goes to places that had SRD, DTS or SDDS. (with SRD far being the most popular around where I was.) Anyway it would annoy the heck out of me if the digital was out and they had a print running in SR. I would leave at the adverts/trailers get my money back and go on home. Anyway I thought digital projection would cure this - no more Dolby SR for me.
What i've found though is a new problem - missing channels, and it's happening more and more often. I don't know just in this age of managers in the booth if they are unable to switch on all the amps in a morning but something is going on. If had this happen at least 10 times now that I'v been to a show with missing channels. The last one of witch happened today - was atempting to see Lucy at my local multiplex. No right stage channel and no surrounds. I've had other combinations of channels missing as well. A couple times just the surrounds were dead and other times I've had missing stage channels with and without surrounds. I've even had an IMAX show with no right stage channel.

I've also been subjected to some presentations with shitty focus on the image and some with the wrong projector macro being used.

So digital didn't make much difference presentation wise to me.

I sould point out that this isn't one place. It is like 6 different multiplexes that I visit regulary.

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

- posted 10-03-2014 05:15 PM      Profile for Terry Lynn-Stevens   Email Terry Lynn-Stevens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Overall, I have no issues with digital.

While I understand that film done correctly can be superior, I have gotten to point where I really don't care. I have moved on from it.

DCP audio vs compressed 35mm audio, I don't really give a shit. Truthfully, I always liked Dolby Stereo/Dolby Surround from the pre-digital days the best.

All I ask for is proper masking and volume playback levels that are appropriate.

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004

- posted 10-03-2014 06:56 PM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I haven't been to many theatres besides my own since digital took over, but what I've seen has been a huge improvement.

Because I rarely see a movie the opening weekend (unless it's a QC screening in my own theatre), I would normally see prints which were dirty and/or scratched. And it was normal to see aperture plates that were poorly filed.

The digital presentations I have seen so far have been 100% problem free. I realize this isn't always the case based on what I experience in my theatre, but overall I think it's lead to more consistent quality.

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Geoff Jones
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 579
From: Broomfield, CO, USA
Registered: Feb 2006

- posted 10-03-2014 07:48 PM      Profile for Geoff Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Geoff Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At digital showings, I have noticed these new problems:
- Jagged stair-steps on diagonal lines (easy to see in text/ credits).
- Low resolution fuzziness.
- Shimmery blotchiness in dark areas of the picture.
- Convergence (?) issues where high-contrast edges show green or purple bleed.

At digital showings, I continue to experience these problems:
- Scratches or marks on the screen.
- Audio problems, such as an entire channel not turned on.
- Disruptive talking.
- Auditorium light bleeding onto the screen.

I will admit that since the roll-out of digital, I have not noticed any problems with unsteady images.

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Buck Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 894
From: St. Joseph MO, USA
Registered: Sep 2010

- posted 10-03-2014 08:27 PM      Profile for Buck Wilson   Email Buck Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've noticed more late starts which is obviously a little backwards, but happening nonetheless.

I've also noticed more bizarre artifacts like the entire screen going to snow with only a hint of the actual image behind it upon start, lasting for a few minutes, and even once right during the climax of a feature. The show had to be passed out, it lasted for 5+ minutes.

Convergence issues, lack of focus and resolution are all almost constant issues.

Bulb flicker is still an issue I see frequently.

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Sam Graham
AKA: "The Evil Sam Graham". Wackiness ensues.

Posts: 1431
From: Waukee, IA
Registered: Dec 2004

- posted 10-03-2014 08:55 PM      Profile for Sam Graham   Author's Homepage   Email Sam Graham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
ANALOG:

Shaky presentations and scratched up prints are non-existent (except Cinemarkury 20 at Jordan Creek, where I swear the booth must double as a bouncy castle).

No more digital sound fail/analog backup.

Picture less likely to be out of focus.

Which, to summarize, is to say that human error/uncaring booth people has been all but eliminated.

DIGITAL:

When something does go wrong, almost nobody on site has a clue how to fix it.

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Joe Elliott
Master Film Handler

Posts: 497
From: Port Orange, Fl USA
Registered: Oct 2006

- posted 10-03-2014 11:54 PM      Profile for Joe Elliott   Email Joe Elliott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The biggest problem I have seen is missing channels. In many locations, no one checks the sound. The digital contracts rarely include sound, and if they do, (ours has started doing basic checks), you tell the management that they have channels out, and need to order amps, and they never do. Not until their center goes out, then I get weird notes like, auditorium 2 has a crackling sound like the speakers are blown. Well lets see, that is because they only have the left channel working, so they turn it way up to hear the slight mumblings that are carry overs from the center channel, and they likely have blown that left speaker when the music comes on. Many sites no longer have staff that have a clue about the equipment. Especially in the morning. They know how to turn it on, and a couple of things to do if it doesn't work. That's it.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 10-04-2014 01:03 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
All I ask for is proper masking and volume playback levels that are appropriate.
Gosh Terry, you would hate IMAX if you ever experienced one. [Razz]

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 10-04-2014 02:26 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unfortunately digital has not even touched the problems of poorly EQ'd sound, low light levels and crappy equipment. It has brought the new problems of aliasing and no masking. I know I know, there were some theaters here and there before digital that had no masking, but it really didn't start to become popular until digital took off.

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

- posted 10-04-2014 06:36 AM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Joe Redifer
know I know, there were some theaters here and there before digital that had no masking, but it really didn't start to become popular until digital took off.
Two of the major chains in the UK have adoped a company wide policy of "open your masking to it's largest size and switch it off" since digital roll out. Luckily the others still use their masking.

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

- posted 10-04-2014 12:20 PM      Profile for Terry Lynn-Stevens   Email Terry Lynn-Stevens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Its standard around here to watch movies on an open flat screen in scope at Cineplex theaters. All new screens that Cineplex installs do not have masking, they are wall to wall floating. In some of the theaters that have a renovated auditorium, the masking is fixed and set to flat.

I don't have a problem with no masking if the screen in wall to wall (Premium large format/VIP), what becomes totally unwatchable is scope projected on a flat screen with black masking set to flat.

Ideally, masking would be nice, Landmark Cinemas stills does the masking right.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 10-04-2014 12:39 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
Its standard around here to watch movies on an open flat screen in scope at Cineplex theaters. All new screens that Cineplex installs do not have masking, they are wall to wall floating. In some of the theaters that have a renovated auditorium, the masking is fixed and set to flat.
So stop patronizing them. Personally I find the below Cineplex masking-less presentation simply unacceptable. Sure it's digital and the edges are sharp, but the picture doesn't fill the screen and it looks like some half-assed presentation you would see in some guy's home.

-

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

- posted 10-04-2014 12:43 PM      Profile for Terry Lynn-Stevens   Email Terry Lynn-Stevens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brad Miller
Cineplex masking-less presentation simply unacceptable
Even worse is flat masking around a scope letter box image. The common height cinemas are now set to flat and scope is projected on them.

VIP/AVX which have no masking does not bother me as much

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Sam Graham
AKA: "The Evil Sam Graham". Wackiness ensues.

Posts: 1431
From: Waukee, IA
Registered: Dec 2004

- posted 10-04-2014 07:51 PM      Profile for Sam Graham   Author's Homepage   Email Sam Graham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brad Miller
Personally I find the below Cineplex masking-less presentation simply unacceptable. Sure it's digital and the edges are sharp, but the picture doesn't fill the screen and it looks like some half-assed presentation you would see in some guy's home.
Danged Cinetopia living room auditoriums... [Razz]

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003

- posted 10-04-2014 11:40 PM      Profile for Steve Matz   Email Steve Matz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Weii;I'm pro film but I watched "A Walk through the Tombstones" at a Carmike Theater(Winnsong 10)this evening and was actually impressed with the Picture Quality/sound and Screen Size. Usually on these Multiplexes when you have 10 or more screens they get pretty small. This Screen was as large as the old single screens we had decades back. I'm sure not all the theaters have equal size screens;this theater must be where the Big Blockbusters are shown.Resolution,sharp focus,etc was very good.The Blacks still don't seem to have the contrast of film but if I had to rate my experience at this Movie from 1 to 10 I would easily give it a 9+..... [beer]

Do all the Carmike Chain theaters use the same brand Projectors? I would probably think they would if you had that many theaters across the Country. Buying in Bulk they would probably be getting a pretty good price per Unit....I didn't get a chance to ask one of their People what Mfger they were using,but whoseever it was I was impressed...

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