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Author Topic: 3D safety raises concerns
System Notices
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 - posted 08-29-2011 11:09 AM      Profile for System Notices         Edit/Delete Post 
3D safety raises concerns

Source: variety.com

quote:
he last thing the 3D TV business needs is a health scare. With the sales of sets sluggish, prices high and a comparative dearth of content, consumers have been slow to embrace the new technology.
Now a lack of an overarching tech standard risks making auds queasy.

In 3D, the difference in perspective between the left-eye and right images is called parallax. Greater parallax means more intense 3D, but can also be the culprit behind hyperconvergence, or 3D that causes the eye strain, headaches and nausea.

"3D is the first time we have a display technology that has the capability of making people physically sick," says Technicolor's Pete Routhier, who developed the company's 15-point Certifi3D system of quality control. "People on the street won't (differentiate between good and bad 3D). They'll just say, '3D at home is not for me.'?"

The few nets broadcasting in 3D have set their own standards, but potential problems may come from advertiser content looking to make their 3D spots more invasive an memorable via greater parallax.

"We do not have specific standards for our advertisers," says ESPN 3D coordinating producer Phil Orlins says. "I'm not sure how we would exactly quantify one with so many variables involved."

Late last year, President Obama signed the Calm Act, a law capping commercial volume to prevent such invasiveness in ad sound. Some insiders are wondering whether similar caps will need to be placed on parallax.

"The problem is every commercial thinks it's in a universe by itself, but there's going to be 10 commercials back-to-back," Routhier says, "the cumulative effect of that is going to drain your audience."

"Journey to the Center of the Earth" producer and 3D expert Charlotte Huggins doesn't believe hyperconvergence is a serious issue in home entertainment, even in advertising, because of the smaller size of the screens and the fact that very convergent images tend to "ghost," or appear to double, accidentally. "Nobody's going to want to see their product come off the screen and ghost," she says.

But Perry Hoberman, a professor at the USC School of Cinematic Arts, believes home entertainment is where danger is the greatest because broadcasters can't know how far auds will sit from the screen.

Though experts, including those from the American Optometric Assn., note that there is no evidence that viewing proper 3D is harmful, manufacturers of 3D devices recommend that users take breaks. Nintendo, for example, says its 3D is for ages 7 and older, and recommends a 10-15 minute break for every half hour of 3D gameplay. But it's not an issue that may be settled soon. Good stereography requires knowing and adjusting for what kind of screen the content is being played back on. Because humans naturally see in 3D, "If it's well-made 3D, your eyes aren't going to do anything that they don't already do," says Perry Hoberman, professor at the USC School of Cinematic Arts.

Any way you look at it, the 3D biz doesn't need another headache.

Contact the Variety newsroom at news@variety.com


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Frank Angel
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 - posted 08-29-2011 12:34 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What the freakin 3D business needs, is MORE CONTENT. What are the studios waiting for? They have a good five years worth of 3D titles, not to mention the 3D classics from the 50s and 80s that are already in the can and would cost them practically nothing to release....it's FOUND money! What are they doing -- keeping them warm in their ass cracks thinking they will somehow magically make money if the DON'T release them?

They are going to kill off the 3D theatrical market by 3D surcharges and they are going to kill off the 3D home market by thinking it's a good idea NOT to put their 3D product on the market.

Just proves the point....Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

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Mike Blakesley
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 - posted 08-29-2011 12:35 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Agreed with Frank, but this article is really about the TV industry, nothing to do with the movie industry. There's a big difference between 3D "gameplay" on a 42" screen at home, and watching a movie on a theatre screen...I would think the eyes are doing a lot more intensive "work" when playing the game.

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Mark J. Marshall
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 - posted 08-29-2011 04:25 PM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Angel
not to mention the 3D classics from the 50s and 80s that are already in the can and would cost them practically nothing to release
I AGREE WITH THIS 100% What the hell, Warner? Where is House of Wax? Universal? Where is Creature? And Revenge of the Creature? And It Came From Outer Space?

What the hell are you guys waiting for?

I have a theory. Some of the 3D stuff from the 50s was done SO well, that it will likely make the stuff being done today with its view-masterish fakeness and horrible depth of field resulting in blurry backgrounds look terrible.

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Bruce Hansen
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 - posted 08-29-2011 05:27 PM      Profile for Bruce Hansen   Email Bruce Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
"If it's well-made 3D, your eyes aren't going to do anything that they don't already do," says Perry Hoberman, professor at the USC School of Cinematic Arts.

WRONG! In the real world your eyes focus on where the objects are. In 3D TV your eyes focus only on the screen, because that is where the image is.

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Monte L Fullmer
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 - posted 08-30-2011 02:04 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
..and when you talk to some of the patrons, they complain of the same with viewing problems where they definitely want just the 2D ticket instead of the 3D ticket - and outside of the price difference.

I'm afraid when one 3D movie comes out and someone that doesn't know if any visual affects with be bothered with, suddenly have epliptic convulsions, or similar due to viewing and a lawsuit might come out of this - esp if there is no 2D version available at that same venue.

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Frank Angel
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 - posted 08-30-2011 10:49 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The article does makes a good point in that we see in 3D all the time. We naturally have the ability to do severe parallax convergence all the time in normal everyday living. When you are looking at something very close, like a computer monitor or working on something where you are only inches from your work, that's about as extreme a parallax convergence as you can get, yet no one ever complains that it causes eyestrain. If you put your finger right up to your nose and look at it, you are asking your eyes to converging as much as they physically can, and it's something they do automaticallly without even your needing to think about it.

Not that the effects shouldn' be looked at by medical people, but do it without all that alarmist stuff that the news media seem to love. Thing is, if we start telling people there is even a possibiliy that they are going to hurt their eyes by watching 3D, just the power of suggestion alone is going to cause a good percentage of people to actually feel like something is wrong. So they better nip this in the bud or it could really hurt all 3D more than whatever other REAL negatives are involved.

BTW, I remember the big thing when were kids was that sitting too close to the TV set would hurt our eyes. And people believed it.

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Steve Guttag
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 - posted 08-30-2011 11:55 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank...you keep missing the point that 3D via movies/glasses is NOT the same as the real world and it isn't something your body is used to doing. Where else in nature do you focus on one point but are looking in another?

-Steve

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Jack Theakston
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 - posted 08-30-2011 02:03 PM      Profile for Jack Theakston   Email Jack Theakston   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark J. Marshall
I have a theory. Some of the 3D stuff from the 50s was done SO well, that it will likely make the stuff being done today with its view-masterish fakeness and horrible depth of field resulting in blurry backgrounds look terrible.
That would be true... if the suits from the studios knew shit from shinola about the '50s films. The truth is that they view it like everything else in their catalog—just film that's old and good for loan collateral and pillaging for remake ideas.

The thought to actually do anything with these films occurs to these people once in a blue moon, and then usually gets dropped (Fox was going to do something with INFERNO, for example, then lost interest).

The only exception to this rule seems to be Sony, who has actually attempted to do something with their library. But the problem is that most of their features are a hard sell on their own.

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Mike Blakesley
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 - posted 08-30-2011 02:25 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the problem is that today's movie buyers don't give a crap about movies from the '50s.

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Frank Angel
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 - posted 08-30-2011 07:35 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, I get that perfectly well. My personal experience over many years of hours of 3D film viewing has been that the brain is a quick learner and that most people can deal with that unusual requirement with ease, especially when 3D is done well. In good 3D that disparity is not constantly present, in fact, in AVATAR and THE HOUSE OF WAX, two that I found to be examples of 3D done exceptionally well, depth was mostly positioned only mildly in front of the screen, but mostly behind the screen.
Convergence in front and close to the viewer is only done intermittantly and not sustained for any duration other than for the effect shots. Maybe I am biased because I have NEVER gotten eye strain or headaches from watching hours of 3D, and I am talking six plus hours at Expo 3D at the Egyptian. So perhaps I may dismiss the complaints to casually based on my experience, but if it were that difficult for the brain and eyes to deal with the focus disparity issue, it would be much more universal a problem.

Point is, yes, in real life you focus on point A and converge on point A. Convergence muscles and focusing muscles are at the same point. BUT, those muscles aren't asked to do anything that they are not capable of doing in real life when they focus on point A but now converge on point B. It doesn't strain them; they are perfectly capbable of making the eyes converge to that extent that's required to see a single imatge while focusing at another point. It doesn't strain them to do this. All that is required is for the brain to coordinate the two positions, which it seems perfectly capable in doing.

In real life you rarely make a circle with one hand on your stomach while making a cirle in the opposite direction over your head with the other, yet with a little practice most people can get their brain to coordinate the two movement. Thing is, though it is unusual, the muscles in your arms are not strained to perform each action; they are not performing any movement that they are not perfectly capable of doing, and doing easily. It's just brain muscle coordination that is "strained" in such an exercise.

Proof is that the moment you look at a 3D image on the screen, your brain has no trouble immediately figuring out what is required and it performs the necessary computations. If it couldn't or didn't, then you would see double or when you converged and saw a single 3D image, you wouldn't be able to focus on it. This clearly is not the case.

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Mark J. Marshall
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 - posted 08-31-2011 04:42 AM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike, for the most part, I agree with you. But if it was marketed correctly, you'd find people who would go.

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Frank Angel
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 - posted 08-31-2011 05:50 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmmm...all the movies at Expo 3D were from the 50s and they filled the Egyptian theatre -- 1000 plus, pack houses nearly every show -- with people from all over the world, 6 days straight and showing 3 films a day.

We just ran WEST SIDE STORY -- audience attendance: 4000 plus

Two years ago we ran CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON in 3D -- audience attendance: 6000 plus! That ain't peanuts.

Mostly all I run are old classic titles and we never hurt for an audience, thank you. People do give a crap for the classics, you just have to know how to reach them and how to promote them. Commercial theatres don't promote themselves, they expect the studio to sell the picture and they sit back and wait for the people to come to the door. You can't do that with the classics. With the right promotion, people will certainly plunk down money for older titles if they are marketed correctly, be they on the screen on video release. And when you are talking about 3D, there is even more of a demand given the dirth of 3D product out there. Just like when I bought my first CD player and there were literally only half a dozen releases. I bought anything that came out simply to have something to play on my shiney new Teac. There are lots of people out there with shiney new 3DTVs who would do the same thing. My friend actually bought the gawdawful PARANHA simply to have something to show off his new set. No question he would buy lots of the 50s and 80s 3Ds, not to mention practically ALL of the Pixar titles. SO WHERE ARE THEY?

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Mike Blakesley
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 - posted 08-31-2011 12:50 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Angel
in AVATAR and THE HOUSE OF WAX, two that I found to be examples of 3D done exceptionally well, depth was mostly positioned only mildly in front of the screen, but mostly behind the screen.
That raises another problem. A lot of people think 3D means "stuff jumping out at you." If it's mostly depth, they feel ripped off. Again... marketing, is the key.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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 - posted 09-02-2011 06:43 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Digital 3-D is intended to be a window in to the scene... although some stuff can still come out at you. Best example of the full capabilities of digital 3-D are the Real-D bumpers.

Mark

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