Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Theater Tells ‘Tree of Life’ Audience to Have an “Open Mind,” Refuses Refunds

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Topic: Theater Tells ‘Tree of Life’ Audience to Have an “Open Mind,” Refuses Refunds

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Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi

Posts: 215

Registered: Apr 2004

posted 06-24-2011 06:56 PM

Theater Tells ‘Tree of Life’ Audience to Have an “Open Mind,” Refuses Refunds

Source: filmschoolrejects.com

quote:
The Tree of Life isn’t a film for everyone. You have to meet it halfway, it tests your patience at times, and it doesn’t fit normal storytelling conventions. If a viewer isn’t at all into experimental filmmaking and doesn’t know what “non-linear” means, then it’s most likely not a film for them. Because of this, some filmgoers should probably do their homework before going to Terrence Malick’s epic.

“Brad Pitt? Sean Penn? Dinosaurs? And the creation of earth!?! Awesome!” Some patrons must’ve gotten that impression, and the art house Avon Theater in Stamford, CT is responding to those theatergoers who would prefer a refund, rather than enduring a two and a half hour poem.

Here’s the “no refund” warning the theater put out:

Now, does this read at all as condescending? Even as someone who adores the film, there’s something inherently snobbish about this warning. I could easily see someone knowing what they’re paying for, but not ending up enjoying the experience. Not everyone dislikes The Tree of Life just because they “didn’t get it.” If a theater patron knew that they were getting an unconventional film but ended up being aggravated by its possible repetition and self-importance, why would they want to lose over 2 hours of their (possibly important) time and ten bucks over an unenjoyable experience?

Should a theater’s response to a dissatisfied filmgoer really be ‘you just didn’t get it’?

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Kurt Zupin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 989
From: Maricopa, Arizona
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 06-24-2011 09:55 PM

Wow...that really is dumb. No matter how bad I wanted to see a movie, I wouldn't go to a theatre that would put something like that up and pretty much call me dumb if I don't like the movie.

[thumbsdown]

to The Avon

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 06-24-2011 10:01 PM

Personally, I think it's bullshit. But that's just me.

This sort of thing -- whether in the form of a letter or verbally from someone who liked the film -- always puts me "on notice" that I'm not going to like it.

Movies should not come with a warning.

"No Refund" policy = Theatre is in denial that they have problem(s).

"No Refund" policy PLUS a note singling out a particular movie = Theatre is in denial that the movie has problem(s).

Policies like this don't come out of thin air -- there's always a history behind them.

Buyer beware!

Personally, I think Terrence Malick is over-rated.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 06-24-2011 11:10 PM

IMHO, absolutely no theater anywhere should ever be held responsible for the quality of dramatic content in a movie. Theaters should not be required to give out refunds to customers for a movie being bad.

The only aspects where movie theaters should ever be required to provide refunds is on the technical presentation of the movie (projection/sound quality) and quality of customer service.

If the customer was stupid enough to buy tickets for a piece of shit movie then the fault is 100% all on the head of the customer. No one else.

This is one of the reasons why we have movie critics. They help the buyer beware. Customers should visit the Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic web sites. They should do a little homework about the film they're about to see and the body of work from that given filmmaker. If a customer is walking in blind to a Terrence Malick movie and hasn't seen any of his previous films then the customer has only himself to blame for not liking the product. This is NOT the theater's fault at all.

This is yet another symptom of what's wrong with the United States and its current state of culture. Lack of personal responsibility and ZERO sense of consequence.

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Jim Henk
Master Film Handler

Posts: 364
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 06-25-2011 01:04 AM

I have gotten my money back on a bad movie before, but then again, I walked out in the first seven or eight minutes. Not after I've stayed for long for any reason whatsoever, or even more ridiculous, the whole thing. That's just preposterous.

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Kurt Zupin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 989
From: Maricopa, Arizona
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 06-25-2011 02:40 AM

I could read up on a film all freaking day and watch every trailer out there for it. Does not mean that once I see it I'm going to like it, I've seen plenty of films that I read up on and watched previews for and just hated once I started watching them. I've only walked out of one movie though. I make myself sit through something, no matter how bad it is.

The "Sign" just comes off as pretentious and arrogant. Makes the theater look like a bunch of ass holes. I quote "The Avon stands behind the ambitious work of art and other challenging films, which define us as TRUE ART HOUSE CINEMA, AND WE HOPE YOU WILL EXPAND YOUR HORIZONS WITH US." Well fuck you and your "true art house cinema". /Rant

I'm fine not giving a refund, if a guest comes up after 30 minutes from a movie. We don't give them a refund. If someone comes up and says, "Man you know we just couldn't get into this movie, its really not our thing." I'm not going to give them there money back but I'm sure as hell going to take care of them. I don't have a note posted in the window saying, Don't like the movie? Tough, NO-REFUND.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 06-25-2011 02:56 AM

Homework?

Good Lord.

That money does not belong to the theatre -- especially on opening weekend -- the studio should not benefit from making a lousy movie. Theatres that don't want to give refunds on account of lousy movies should not show lousy movies.

As a patron or a theatre employee, I've never seen a refund situation extend all the way to the snacks. Just the ticket gets refunded. The theatre keeps the snack money and the studio loses the ticket sale -- as it should be.

Sure, the theatre loses a portion of the ticket sale. But how many times have we defended the "no outside food" policy on the grounds that "theatres don't make their money from ticket sales" ?

So, we're switching that story now???

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 06-25-2011 10:10 AM

quote: Bobby Henderson
The only aspects where movie theaters should ever be required to provide refunds is on the technical presentation of the movie (projection/sound quality) and quality of customer service.

Exactly. I would never give anyone a refund because they disliked the movie.

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Pravin Ratnam
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 844
From: Atlanta, GA,USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 06-28-2011 07:16 PM

I dont see why a theater should issue a refund. Maybe free entry to another movie.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 06-28-2011 07:24 PM

If refunds were given every time a patron disliked the movie, there would be no industry.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 06-29-2011 04:03 PM

I've worked at a few theatres that gave refunds or exchanges (for another movie) if the patron came out early enough. No specific policies but, generally, within the first 20-30 minutes. None of those theatres went broke doing this.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 06-29-2011 05:20 PM

Yes, any theatre could op to give a refund if someone were to come out after a reasonable time, as you say, 20 - 30 min. and was really disappointed, but that refund would only be as a good will gesture, and certainly not because the theatre has any obligation to do so.

As for the notice, I think the theatre is just basically reiterating their no refund policy and saying, "Enter at your own risk." I don't see any problem with them warning people that a particular movie is controvertial and that people have not liked it. Condescending, perhaps, but remember it is an art house which by its nature runs films that are out of the Hollywood mainstream and not to everyones taste. They happen to think this particular film is worthy of being run. If no exhibitor ever took a risk and presented only what was safe and appealed just to the mask market (I am picturing an audience booing and rioting at the primiere, hating Stravinski's ground-breaking, incredible Rite of Spring), how BORED would we all be!

I see nothing wrong with the warning; they are just reiterating their No Refund policy. I would bet the tone, while yes, it is a bit pompous, more than likely comes from quite a bit of abuse that they must have taken from boorish patrons who thought the theatre should only show films that the patron personally finds pleasing and give refunds for the ones they don't.

And what patron goes into a film totally blind and without knowing ANYTHING about it? Who DOES that? Would I go into a movie titled THE TREE OF LIFE and have not a clue whatsoever what it is about....not read a review, just pick it because I think the title is interesting, and then expect a refund because I didn't like it? That's nonsense. Certainly there has been enough written about this movie and Terrence Malick that a moviegoer with just a modicum of curiosity, especially one who goes to an art house, would know something of the controversy about the film and take that into consideration when buying the ticket. And just in case there is a clueless person, the theatre is being kind enough to warn him of the controversy beforehand. They make it clear they are on the positive side of the love/hate debate and they think the film will broaden ones horizons. How is this so terrible?

The alternative to posting a warining would be not to post anything and just ask whoever comes out saying they want a refund, if they know how to whistle Dixie.

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Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

posted 06-29-2011 05:46 PM

quote: Frank Angel
And what patron goes into a film totally blind and without knowing ANYTHING about it? Who DOES that?

There are a few people who come to the show occasionally and buy a ticket and then say, "By the way, what's playing?" I also have some people who come to the show every week, regardless of what's playing.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 06-30-2011 02:38 AM

Granted, but I am assuming your theatre is a regular multiplex that plays the current Hollywood line-up; these patrons are going to an arthouse that plays very esoteric, avante garde titles, many of which could have very limited appeal.

Even if a patron DID go in blind to an arthouse and weren't involved enough to find out what they were planning to see, they certainly can't come out after the fact and demand they get refunds just because it wasn't to their liking.

No, I think the theatre did just the right thing. It looked out for its patrons; it posted a warning about a film that it found an unusual number of previous audences didn't care for. And it used the opportunity to also make its refund policy very clear. The comment about "expanding" the patrons' horizons is exactly the mission of an arthouse, and exactly why people go.

If you guys take a management statement like that to be offensive, then I think you're way too sensitive.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 06-30-2011 11:13 AM

You have to remember, though, that many people go to avante garde movies because they want to feel like they are better than the rest of us idiots. And the more limited the appeal, the more they feel like they are better but even then some of them can't put up with a movie being complete shit. [Wink]

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