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Author Topic: Old 16mm projector...what to do with it? Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-31-2015 01:07 PM                        OK, so I am cleaning out my office and I have a Bell & Howell 16mm sound projector from the 1960s or maybe earlier. It is in fine shape but hasn't been run in at least 20 years. Last time it was used, it worked perfectly and I'm the only one who has run it in the last 50 years or so. All the pieces (reel arms, speaker) are there. Should I keep it, junk it, or sell it? And what could it possibly be worth?  |  IP: Logged Jeff Taylor Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 601 From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY Registered: Apr 2000 posted 01-31-2015 02:54 PM                     If it's from the 500-2500 model series it is probably worth relatively little as they have a plastic/nylon worm gear which inevitably cracks from age and costs $250+ to replace. The early wood cased models had no such major design faults, but by now most would need to have their amps recapped, and many had line voltage chassis with no power transformer, so beware. My overall advice is that it's probably not worth much more than the cost of shipping it to a buyer, unless you or someone local wants it.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-31-2015 04:21 PM                        I don't see a model number on it, but there is a little metal plate on the backside that says "DES. 385" and then right after that, the letter C stamped on the plate. "DES" meaning design maybe? The outside case IS made of wood. On the front door it says Bell & Howell "Filmosound". Funny part is, inside the front cover it says "The lifetime warranty on this projector is void unless registered with Bell & Howell." Knowing my grandpa, he would have registered that bad boy! Even the quality-control inspection tag is still there. The only thing I don't have is the instruction book and the original box (which is amazing because Grandpa always kept the box for virtually everything).  |  IP: Logged Sean Weitzel Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall) Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-31-2015 04:22 PM                     Is that the kind with a vacuum tube amplifier? If so the amplifier by itself is highly sought after by musicians for use with electric guitar.  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 01-31-2015 05:07 PM                     What you've got is a B&H Model 385 Filmosound. The "385" is a 1956 model. The B&H projectors of that era were 'built like tanks' so there's still a lot of them around out there. I've still got both a "185" and a "285" which were earlier models. The "185" is my favorite. It's well 'worn-in" and runs smooth! Back in the mid 1980's, I worked at a B&H repair facility for awhile. The major "issues" you might encounter with this line of projectors: 1) The AC/DC "universal motor" had brushes. They will eventually wear out. 2) The speed was controlled by a mechanical governor attached to the rear of the motor shaft. It was also 'connected' to the motor by a couple of small carbon brushes which were subject to wear causing speed fluctuations. Also, when the governor got out-of-whack it was usually just easier to replace it than to try and adjust it. (Good luck finding one now!) All these B&H projectors, right up till one of the '500' series models in the mid 1960's, had vacuum tube amplifiers. I've only had to re-cap one of my amps. (In the "285") And while I was at it, I also replaced the old selenium rectifier stack with a diode bridge. There were still a lot of these projectors in use at schools & military bases in the early 80's, and the place I worked for had projector maintenance contracts with several of them here in the bay area, so we had every possible friggin' part, down to the smallest screw in stock. We even had 'original paint' to touch up the outer cases, which were made of wood. But good luck finding most of that stuff now! However, as I mentioned before, these machines were "built to last", and many of them have. I've owned my "285", which was manufactured in 1953, since around 1975 - - and the only thing I've had to replace was one of the vacuum tubes and a spring belt. I used to have a list of model & serial numbers that I xeroxed while working at the B&H repair place with which you could "date" the month and year a particular projector was manufactured. But when I moved several years ago one of my file-boxes got accidentally tossed and I think that document was one of the ones that I lost.  |  IP: Logged Steve Matz Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 672 From: Billings, Montana, USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 01-31-2015 07:41 PM                     I have 3 model 385's in my collection. probably the best of the 300 series not counting the opt/mag 302 model. Like Jim says, they will outlast you and your Children if properly maintained. Those 3 oil caps on the projector head and the oiling holes in the sprocket shafts if oiled properly will let that projector run forever. All steel gears in these babies with aluminum guide rollers, etc. no no cheap Nylon gears here. You can still get tubes for the Amp if bad. I have seen them go on Ebay for 50 to 75 bucks even in mint condition. The freight usually cost more that the projector as their not a light weight. I would hang on to it and I'll sell you some of my 16mm Film Collection..LOL! BTW Mike: The 3 Stooges title you were speaking of regarding Curly having the Pull knob was "THREE LITTLE BEERS" - 1935 Jim: I have a 16MM MFG index of a number of Mfgers including B&H its on a PDF File....The 385C was produced from 1955-58...The 385 model ended with the K series in 1961 followed by the 398/399 series... Hardly ever see an Original Mfger box for the 100-300 series projectors. To a diehard collector you might get more for the box than the projector itself  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-03-2015 05:25 PM                        I guess I'll hang on to it, for lack of anything better to do with it. We still have a ton of old 16mm home movies that would be fun to see, if this machine will still run after being mothballed for 20+ years. That picture you posted is exactly what I have here.  |  IP: Logged David Buckley Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 525 From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand Registered: Aug 2004 posted 02-03-2015 06:32 PM                        First projector I ever operated. As a schoolkid in New Zealand in the 1960s, the schools I attended all had one of these installed in the hall, and everyone in school got to see something on film once a week, usually government information films. Interested kids were allowed to project the movie. Edited to add that just gazing at the pic again I spotted the mic socket, and this reminded me that these things doubled as the hall PA as well. Good times...  |  IP: Logged Steve Matz Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 672 From: Billings, Montana, USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 02-04-2015 03:41 AM                     quote: Mike Blakesley I guess I'll hang on to it, for lack of anything better to do with it. We still have a ton of old 16mm home movies that would be fun to see, if this machine will still run after being mothballed for 20+ years. That picture you posted is exactly what I have here. Well if it hasn't been run in 20 years, here are my suggestions. I used Singer Sewing Machine Oil in my B&H's. I almost think it was the OEM oil they used. 3 in 1 oil would suffice. Don't over oil the Unit; some people think you have to add a bunch of oil to these projectors. Since it's probably dry; give each oil cap three squeezes like a a small can of 3 in 1 oil would be. Then lay the projector on it's side with the Sprockets looking up at you and give one squirt in the 3 sprocket holes. You shouldn't have to oil it for another 6 months if you used it regularly. Sometimes when they set around for years the points in the Governor get oxidation and the projector surges at different RPM.I take an automotive points file or even a woman's nail file will work and make a few passes between the contact points. There are 2 sets; one for silent speed(1080)and one set for sound speed(1440)there rarely ever exact, I have a Tach I use on them and if there within 5 rpms everything is OK. Just make sure after you've filed the points to clean the contacts with alcohol or lacquer thinner. I have never needed to replace brushes on the Armature; you would have to put thousands of hours to wear them down to nothing. I doubt your Grandpa had that many hours on the machine to begin with. The AMP in these things comes out in a snap. 4 screws on the Bottom and the whole works comes out. My friend in Billings John at Alpine TV has thousands of vaccum tubes if one is needed. I know he still has a couple testers and wouldn't even charge you to check them. Amp should look similar to this,it's from a 285 but has the same tubes...just be careful with the photocell tube,there a little harder to come by This is from a 385, I knew I had a picture This might be helpful if your unfamiliar with the projector  |  IP: Logged Terry Monohan Master Film Handler Posts: 379 From: San Francisco CA USA Registered: May 2014 posted 02-04-2015 11:19 AM                     I have always liked the many Kodak Pageant 250S 16mm solid state sound projectors I have for my home theatre set up. Even have some CinemaScope® lens setups for them. They run quite and most never break any films. This model has a bright type of bulb found like in a Kodak slide projector. One other thing about this type of Kodak 16mm projector It projects a nice square end picture on the corners not like the old noisy bulky tank B&H that has a round curve on the corners. Many of the schools I went to in the late 50's & 60's switched from the B&H model to the new Kodak Pageant models when they came out in the 60's after they saw how easy they ran on film. Schools rented many feature films at the time from Films Inc. It was not a good thing to have your old projector damage rental prints with costly sprocket damage. Long live 16mm!!!!!  |  IP: Logged Steve Matz Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 672 From: Billings, Montana, USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 02-04-2015 11:47 AM                     Here is what they look like out of the case. If you do have to get to the Governor Points; just 2 screws on that back armature cover and the points plate will be staring you in the face, If your projector isn't surging and holding steady RPM you won't need to access the governor. Here is where B&H got cheap IMHO. This is a 399 unit. the followup to your projector. You'll notice there are no oil caps on the head or holes in the Sprocket shafts. That's because they went to sealed bearings and eliminated manual oiling. They call it lifetime lubrication but we all know that's a joke. as soon as the grease is used up,dryed up,etc. then your screwed. I have 4 of these also and they are my least favorite B&H 100-300 series Projectors. Although I haven't had any issues with any of them, I don't like what they did on the lubrication factor. The Only other difference between this and yours is they eliminated the 2 toggle swithches(line/lamp) and went to this single knob switch. I like the old toggles myself. If you do have to remove the Unit from the Box, it comes out pretty easy also. They are actually fun to work on BTW: Terry, I have more Kodak Kodascope and Pageant Projectors in my collection than B&H. They are one of the easiest on Film projectors and hold a very steady image despite only being a 2 sprocket transport system. My very first Kodak projector I bought as a kid was an AV085....I still have my EASTMAN 30 which I bought new in 1968 and used in my Film Library Business for 20 years  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-04-2015 08:22 PM                     Interesting that the 399 had jeweled lateral gate runners - made the film just run so smooth and steady through the gate. Earliest one I had was a 179 - the two cased unit. Thing I always wonder if there are parts available for these old tanks, esp the shuttle claw assembly? One can tell one is worn out if the image has jump on the screen. At the base of each tooth will be a worn groove from the pull down action of each tooth. It's like a worn intermittent sprocket where the base of the tooth gets the lateral groove worn into it from the many pull downs that occurs. I have three B&H units: 551, 1585 and a 2585 with the last one given to me. 551 still with tube amp and the large DFY lamp where the other two are solid state and 250w quartz lamp. I have quite a bunch of the DFY lamps for these workhorses. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Steve Matz Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 672 From: Billings, Montana, USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 02-04-2015 11:14 PM                     Monte, I have 2-179's (an E and a J model). Both are in Pristine Condition, 179's were made from 1945-49 A to K models.This model along with earlier ones and the 185 and early 285's still had the thread lamp on top and had the double roller take up guide below the lamp.B&H started removing parts from later model projectors but never lowered the price in doing so,go figure! They were superceded by the 185 in 1949. I still have a ton of Parts for them along with most of the other 100-300 B&H's BTW: If you ever saw the Movie "BLACKBOARD JUNGLE" 1955 - Glenn Ford ... The projector he is using to show Jack and the Beanstalk to his Class is a 179 B&H...  |  IP: Logged

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