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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Installing MS Windows software (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Installing MS Windows software
Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

- posted 02-28-2015 05:25 PM      Profile for Frank Cox   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Cox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I very rarely do anything with MS Windows; if I see a computer with MS Windows on it once in two or three years that's about it. However, yesterday I had to install and set up three programs on a new Windows 8 laptop: Libreoffice, putty and tightvnc.

I just ran searches through Internet Explorer to find each program, then downloaded them and set them up as needed.

What struck me at the time is that the links to the actual websites for Libreoffice and tightvnc (and probably putty too but I can't recall that one specifically) were about the sixth ones down the list of the search results. The top results appeared to be scam and piggy-back "downloader helper" type crapware.

Wow. I can see where people get nabbed if that's a typical experience. Who knows what I would have installed if I just blindly clicked on the first link offered? I don't think the search results on that machine were being manipulated or hijacked since as far as I know the (elderly) lady who owns the laptop just set it up with her username and password, then brought it to me to install those three programs I listed above. I didn't notice any content on the desktop that didn't look like factory-type bloatware, at least. But I don't know enough about MS Windows to confirm that either.

I also had a number of pop-ups that interrupted me during the hour or so that I had the machine turned on, something about setting up McAffee firewall that showed up at least twice, and a notice that the HP warranty would expire at some point in 2016 and I can renew it right now for 30% off that simply wouldn't go away at all. Two or three other bits and pieces that I don't remember the details of at the moment since I was more interested in making the intruding window go away than reading the write-ups.

Ghawd! Is that the experience that people who run MS Windows live with these days? I simply can't see how anyone could get any real work done with one of those things. I can see the attraction of being able to purchase something in the store that you can just bring home and use right away but... this?

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004

- posted 02-28-2015 05:41 PM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unfortunately the bloatware is very common - especially on bottom end machines. Whenever I get a new machine, the first order of business is to get rid of that software.

As for your search results, it's possible the default search engine had been changed to a ad based engine which looks very similar to Google. Some programs - especially freeware, will try to force you to install these types of programs. Usually you have to do the advance install to deselect them.

For what it's worth, I just searched for all three programs with Google in Firefox on a Windows 7 machine and got the desired result as the top result in all three cases.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 02-28-2015 05:46 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think a lot of low priced computers are subsidized by all that crapware. You usually have to pay considerably more for a "business" or "professional" level desktop or notebook Windows-based PC that doesn't come loaded with that shit.

One thing I find annoying is Microsoft can't seem to "clean up" the versions of Windows it maintains. What I mean by that is them folding what they did with bug fixes, patches, etc. into the main version of Windows.

A couple weeks ago I did a factory reset on my notebook computer, which runs Win 7 Ultimate. The factory reset process is very easy and often fixes performance issues. The downside is you have to immediately download all the security patches, fixes, etc. for Windows. In this case I had to download over 900MB of updates. Then I had to apply updates for my video card, sound card, WiFi & Bluetooth, etc. Then there's the anti-virus software. After all of that I can finally get on to re-installing my applications.

I've done this enough times that I'm very efficient and organized with my "restore" procedure. But all of that crap still takes a full day to do.

quote: Justin Hamaker
As for your search results, it's possible the default search engine had been changed to a ad based engine which looks very similar to Google. Some programs - especially freeware, will try to force you to install these types of programs. Usually you have to do the advance install to deselect them.
Lots of casual computer users either deliberately or unwittingly install the ad-ware infesting their computers and web browsers. Some people think additional tool bars will make their computer run better or they just love programs that will play slide shows of kittens on their computer screen.

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Michael Putlack
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 187
From: Fort Collins, Colorado
Registered: Sep 2011

- posted 02-28-2015 09:04 PM      Profile for Michael Putlack   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Putlack   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't want to sound like "that guy," but I'm glad I switched to Mac about 6 years ago and haven't looked back!

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 02-28-2015 11:18 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unfortunately some of us have to run software that isn't available for Mac OSX (in my case it's CorelDRAW and a few sign industry specific applications). Some of us also like to do some fairly simple things the people running Apple won't allow in OSX, such as playing a Blu-ray movie disc.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 02-28-2015 11:31 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You can play Blu-ray discs on the Mac with an app called Blu-ray Player. Hope you don't wanna watch any of the extras though as it goes STRAIGHT to the movie all the time every time, no way to go anywhere else except for selecting chapters in the main movie.

Anyway could one perhaps buy a low-cost computer that comes with Windows (thus legally obtaining the license), then pirate that same version of Windows from the internet and just install that on the computer fresh? That'd get rid of the bloat. Or does the BIOS look for ONLY the supplied install discs?

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Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

- posted 02-28-2015 11:46 PM      Profile for Frank Cox   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Cox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
A couple weeks ago I did a factory reset on my notebook computer, which runs Win 7 Ultimate. The factory reset process is very easy and often fixes performance issues.
Why in the world would you or anyone else accept this as a normal or expected part of using a computer?

The only time I re-format and re-install the operating system on my computers if I want to upgrade it to an entirely new version or if a hard drive quits and needs replacement. The last time the hard drive in my main desktop computer died, I used that as an excuse to switch the filesystem from ext4 to xfs and that did require a complete re-format. Other than that, everything just works. As it should. My computers are not turned off for months at a time, though I may have to reboot them occasionally if I upgrade to a new kernel or a new version of glibc but that doesn't actually happen very often.

My desktop computer right now says "23:45:18 up 30 days, 1:55, 3 users, load average: 0.27, 0.10, 0.07". I think there was a minor kernel update issued a month back.

I still find it amazing what people put up with and seem to accept as normal when it comes to their computers.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 03-01-2015 12:35 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Joe Redifer
Anyway could one perhaps buy a low-cost computer that comes with Windows (thus legally obtaining the license), then pirate that same version of Windows from the internet and just install that on the computer fresh? That'd get rid of the bloat. Or does the BIOS look for ONLY the supplied install discs?
It depends on the computer. Some PC vendors got wise to Apple's tactic of making OSX look for a specific Apple "boot strap" chip on the motherboard. You can't install OSX on just any Intel CPU-based box. So the PC vendors figured, "if Apple can do that why can't we?" OS discs from companies like Dell look for their specific hardware -provided you get any disc at all in the first place. Most new PCs are now setup to make you backup the OS on your own customer provided optical discs or USB memory sticks. You could try to hack the BIOS to get around the brand and model restrictions, but the time and risk involved might not be worth it. OTOH, you can install a "vanilla" Windows OS disc on just about anything. Just be sure you have all the drivers for the hardware to go along with it.

quote: Frank Cox
Why in the world would you or anyone else accept this as a normal or expected part of using a computer?
When you're using a computer running an operating system which is extremely by far the most targeted OS all the security updates for the OS and patches for other programs pile up. After a year or two all that patch activity can bog down the system. And then there's just the random combination of how all the updates pile in on themselves over the year or two period. Sometimes it just comes together in such a way certain functions in the computer get hopelessly screwed up.

Very often a factory reset is a far easier and far faster way of cleaning up that crap. That is provided if you're good at backing up your data off the boot hard disc (which most PC users aren't good at doing at all).

quote: Frank Cox
I still find it amazing what people put up with and seem to accept as normal when it comes to their computers.
It all comes down to what work (or play) you have to get done with your computer and the software you have to run on it. For the vast majority of computer users they only have the choice between a Mac or a Windows-based PC.

Linux has plenty of fans, but it is far from being acceptable as either a consumer-driven computing platform or one running mainstream desktop computing software. None of the industry-specific software I use runs natively under any Linux build and little if any of it runs properly in any of the emulation schemes available for Linux.

Here's a sobering thought: while our criminal justice system continues to be powerless against computer-based crime (especially on the international level), the malware is going to get more and more advanced. Operating systems that seem safe now (like Mac OSX) aren't going to stay that way. And then everyone not using Windows will have to take the same precautions as some Windows users have been doing for a long time.

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Harold Hallikainen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 906
From: Denver, CO, USA
Registered: Aug 2009

- posted 03-01-2015 11:35 PM      Profile for Harold Hallikainen   Author's Homepage   Email Harold Hallikainen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've had some success with Crossover being able to run Windows programs under Linux when Wine would not. Most stuff, though I just run a Linux application.

Many of the new product designs we're doing are now "platform independent" in that configuration and all user interface is done with a web browser. This works on any OS and avoids the problem of always having to update USB drivers for the latest version of Windows or dealing with the various international versions.

Harold

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 03-02-2015 09:45 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Web-based applications are okay as long as they're "lite" enough. But it's difficult for developers to keep them that way as more capabilities are added. As more functions are added it increases the need to use browser plug-ins and also increases lag time between the end user and the server.

I use a web based application from Daktronics called Visiconn to control a couple digital billboards. The app works fine for what it needs to do, but has no creative capabilities at all, unlike Daktronics' Venus 1500 software for LED variable message centers. Visiconn just manages media files, contracts, schedules, etc. Visiconn is convenient since you can log into it from anywhere. One downside is it requires the deprecated Microsoft Silverlight plug-in and use of either Internet Explorer or Mozilla Firefox. Microsoft isn't developing Silverlight anymore. Dak's Venus 1500 software is way too heavy to run in any true "cloud" fashion. It's Windows-based and also requires NET Framework to be installed along with it.

There is no practical way whatsoever for any of the creative applications I use to function in any server to dumb terminal manner -which is really what cloud computing is in its most fundamental sense. It's a trip back to 1970's computing.

Some mobile application developers have been shifting away from small, light applications to far heavier ones due to performance issues. For example, Facebook's app for iOS and Android is no longer a HTML5 based application; rather it's C++ coded for each specific OS. The problem is the app now weighs close to 100MB when fully updated (at least that's how big it is on my Android phone -and that's not counting the separate Messenger app). 100MB is no big deal on a desktop PC hard disc, but 100MB takes a big freaking chunk out of app storage space on a phone.

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Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

- posted 03-02-2015 11:06 AM      Profile for Frank Cox   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Cox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Deprecation can be a definite issue.

The software that I write tends to be of the long-term, "we'll look at that again in twenty years" type. A water vending machine that I wrote in the 80's is still working fine today, counting beats from a water meter and moving thousands of gallons of (paid for) water every day. I've recompiled it a few times for newer hardware, but there is no user interface so that hasn't been problem. And I just had a phone call a year or so back from a drilling outfit asking a question about the logging software that I wrote for them in the early 90's. I hadn't realized that it was still in use until that phone call.

The stumbling block in this stuff always seems to be user interfaces. Something that just reads input X and prints Y on the screen or on paper is no problem, but as soon as you start showing anything much fancier than that you're looking for trouble.

For the past several years I've been using ncurses for most of my user interfaces -- it hasn't change significantly since the mid-90's and it works very well.

However, these days folks expect a fancy gui and I've been looking for a stable library to provide that for quite a while. Since I'm one of those nutheads that writes his programs in C (not C++) that lets out things like wxWidgets.

I've done a few minor things using GTK+ but that's a constantly moving target and while I like the results I'm not impressed with the function calls that either disappear or change over time so I'm a bit afraid to use it for anything much more significant than toys and experiments. GTK+ also puts out cats and makes coffee, which is nice in some ways but isn't exactly a simple user interface library. My "holy grail" has been a simple gui library that with a C api that isn't constantly evolving; basically a gui version of something like ncurses.

Just a few days ago I've finally found what I've been looking for: Xforms is straight-forward to use, isn't dead and abandoned, and doesn't appear to have changed significantly in a good long time. I think it looks pretty too -- I don't mind that old-school X11/CDE style. I've been playing with it for the past few days and so far I'm impressed. If I don't run across any show-stoppers, I think I'll finally be joining everyone else in the world of the gui.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 03-02-2015 02:19 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Changing standards is a big reason why I haven't bothered much with "web development" over the past 10 years. If I had the luxury of being a full time college student with no bills, no day job, etc. I might have enough time to learn the growing list of programming languages and libraries needed to hand code a modern web site from scratch.

Years ago it wasn't too difficult to hand code a web page just using regular HTML with a little dose of Javascript functions and CSS for styling. Back then people were only looking at web pages on computer screens and not asking for the pages to do too much.

The situation with web design/development has been a total mess for the past few years. The "HTML5" standard has never been fully ratified. Web browsers are all over the place in how good or bad they support HTML5 features just on the personal computing desktop. Now you have to figure in mobile phones, tablets, smart TV sets, game consoles and set top box devices. Thank God old browsers like Internet Explorer 8 are finally disappearing as old WinXP boxes die. That's at least lightening the load of browser hacks one might have to code into a page to keep a certain visual or function somewhat intact.

Lately there has been a movement in web site development called "responsive design." The ideal is having one web page that automatically scales itself properly for any device viewing it, be it a tiny smart phone screen held in vertical orientation or a huge widescreen computer monitor. While the concept sounds great in theory the actual implementation of "responsive" into a web site often yields pages that look like a glorified yet jumbled spreadsheet with little if any sense of composition to it at all.

Some companies have multiple fixed designs that are loaded based on media queries. The end results look a lot better, but it requires a shit ton more work.

Ultimately, web design is one of those fields where there's a hell of a lot of people trying to make a living doing it and very few people making good money doing it. So the idea of getting fully fluent in HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript, JQuery, PHP and AJAX sounds kind of like a big waste of time. For all that trouble it might be easier and more profitable to learn C++ and write software code.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 03-02-2015 03:02 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I made our website on Front Page (which is now defunct) and before that I had built it on PageMill (also defunct) and I keep thinking I need to figure out how to migrate it to one of the newer "design" programs but I have limited amounts of time to spend "learning" new stuff adn every time I start, I wind up getting bogged down with all the minutiae so I eventually get overwhelmed. (I'm sure this is my 50+-year-old brain's fault.)

As is, our site tells what you need to know and can be read just fine on phones. It doesn't resize itself or have a bazillion drop-down slide-across whatevers but I have a feeling that's actually a plus for what we need. We do sell gift cards on the site but that links away to the RTS e-commerce site so no need for e-commerce stuff on ours.

I still think it could use a redesign but I suppose for the foreseeable future it'll remain pretty simple.

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Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

- posted 03-02-2015 03:46 PM      Profile for Frank Cox   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Cox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I find it strange when folks who are otherwise interested in computers aren't also interested in programming. It just seems to me that you're limiting yourself quite a bit if you can't make a computer do what you want it to do, and have to wait until someone else comes along to solve any problems that haven't been solved previously.

When asked, I always describe the process of programming as a cross between writing a novel and solving a crossword puzzle. There is both a creative and a functional aspect to any program and there are multiple approaches available to solve any problem; the challenge is in finding out what the best approach is. And of course I know a lot more ways to skin any particular cat than I did 20 or 30 years ago, and I'll know even more of them in another 20 years than I do today. It's an ongoing learning process and I guess that's what I do with computers instead of playing video games and reading facebook and whatnot.

Because I've been doing this for a while, I focus more on speed and efficiency than a lot of "modern" programmers do; their main concern is making it pretty and if it mostly works then that's close enough. That's why frameworks and the like are so popular, and old grumps like me get left behind.

I get a kick out of reading that some of these frameworks "can run almost as fast as C!" That's nice. C runs exactly as fast as C so there! [Smile]

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 03-02-2015 04:48 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My first "real" computer was a Radio Shack one, when Tandy started putting that name on their products. It had dual 5" floppy drives and I later added a gargantuan 40-mb hard drive.

On that machine I learned a ton about BASIC and wrote my own ticket-selling program. It would sell tickets, print boxoffice reports and various other reports, keep an average of our per-caps, and quite a bit more. But, one thing it would not do was print the actual tickets (this was before you could buy cheap little ticket printers). By the time RTS came along, I felt like that program could do more than mine would ever be able to do, so I migrated over to RTS.

I suppose you have to have a certain type of brain to be a successful programmer. I probably have the right kind of brain, because I love figuring stuff out -- what I don't have is time. My day (or evening) literally gets interrupted every five minutes or less, to the point where I now have a hard time concentrating on one thing for long periods of time. Probably some sort of adult-onset ADD.

But, that's the way it is. I figure I've got about 15 years left in the biz before I seriously start looking to retire, and while I still love to tinker with the computer-related stuff, most of my "programming" these days is working with Excel, which I really enjoy making do things.

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