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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
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Topic: Does anybody here listen to vinyl records?
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 11-03-2018 09:56 PM
About 2,000 records in total, dating from 1896 to 2018. About 30% shellac (or other pre-microgroove, e.g. acetate on steel one-time recordings, and seven 16" Vitaphone discs, all of them from movies I'd never heard of before I acquired the records!), 70% vinyl; 50% classical, 20% jazz and 30% spoken word/other (all figures very rough; cataloging them will be a retirement project, if it ever happens!).
I've always wondered how many shellac records got broken in jukeboxes and/or autochangers. Maybe they get more brittle as they age and they were significantly tougher when they were new; but from what I've seen of jukebox mechanisms in action, I'd imagine that the accidental breakage rate in the mechanical handling was significant.
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Jack Ondracek
Film God
Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 11-04-2018 08:53 AM
quote: Craig Hardy
I don't listen to vinyl, but DO listen to shellac---78rpm.
We have a listener-supported station near here that's been playing shellac content for years. Last I looked at their automation database, they had around 34,000 files in there... maybe 80% of them are 78s.
When I run into them, I'll pick up vinyl copies of the music I have in my system, here at the drive-in (mostly post-shellac!). I have about 3,500 song titles in there, and maybe a third of them are from vinyl.
There's a certain amount of what they call "distortion canceled clipping" applied to high frequencies in FM broadcasting. Added to the square waves that many CDs have become nowadays, the sound can come out with a harsh edge to it. With vinyl, you aren't starting out with clipped audio, so the result can sound a lot better.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 11-04-2018 10:51 AM
Making shellac sound authentic on modern equipment is an extensive and geeky art. This article is a superb and comprehensive introduction, though I don't buy the author's contention that you need to spend $30-40k on equipment to do it right.
Essentially what you need is:
- A turntable that is able to play variable speed from 60-90 RPM (78.26 RPM for 60Hz territories and 77.92 for 50Hz were only standardized in 1925, with the transition from acoustic to electrical recording) will cover all but the earliest and most esoteric pre-vinyl recordings. The turntable should also be able to deliver up to 6-7 grams of tracking force, although you'll only need anything like that much for records in very poor condition.
- A cartridge wired for dual channel mono, e.g. the Shure M78.
- A set of styli from 2 to 8 mil.
- Either a hardware preamp that can do a range of pre-RIAA equalization curves (of which the Westrex and Blumlein curves were the most widespread - about 10 will cover 90% of pre-vinyl records out there), and flat for acoustic records; or software EQ ability if you're capturing and transferring.
- A means of cleaning records. A cheap immersion cleaner such as a Knosti or a Spin-Clean delivers surprisingly good results, but for shellac, use distilled water ONLY - alcohol in particular will attack the shellac substrate and cause it to crumble.
That's really about it. On a tight budget, the mic preamp of a PC's sound card can be made to work as a premp, and there is free software out there (e.g. Audacity) that you can use to EQ and perform manual digital cleanup (e.g. delete pops from scratches). If you know the label and rough year of release, there are many websites out there that will tell you what EQ curve the record was likely mastered with.
If a turntable capable of speeds above 45 is outside your budget, you can capture at 45 and adjust the speed in software, too. The results don't sound that good to my ears, though. I've done this once or twice to records in such poor condition that higher speeds caused the stylus to jump, even with the tracking force maxed out.
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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002
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posted 11-08-2018 01:18 AM
I've sold a lot of my LP's, but I've still got over 400 platters sitting in my living room. I've also got over 500 CDs, but many are boxed sets so that represents almost 800 discs.
I never liked the sound of 2-channel LP's and CD's through my A/V receiver, so I put my old Apt-Holman preamp and Crown power amp back in the system and wired up an amp switcher, so I can use the same front Left-Right speakers from both the A/V receiver and the Crown.
I don't actually listen to the vinyl much unless I acquire something new as I've coped all of the vinyl to CD-R and I'll usually listen to those to preserve the vinyl. Even though all of my vinyl was very well kept and stored, when I coped everything to CD-R, I had tremendous problems with static. But every one in a while, there's an old LP that was mastered brilliantly and pressed on quality vinyl that still sounds spectacular.
Since I'm out of room, I'd sell off all but about 100 of my LP's, but people don't want to pay the price that I'd like. If they won't pay decently, I'd rather just keep them.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 11-08-2018 08:33 AM
I've found that cleaning records properly and then immediately storing them in Mobile Fidelity inner sleeves keeps them almost completely static-free - even cheap, thin and nasty 1970s and '80s pressings. I don't know what they put in the PVC to prevent friction causing static buildup as records are inserted and removed, but it certainly works. Pity that they only make them in 12", especially for 78 collectors, who will likely have a lot of 10".
quote: Cobi Fox
Leo, if you ever decide to catalogue your records, discogs.com is perfect for that.
Will it let you download the data you've entered (e.g. as CSV files) for offline storage? Looking at the site, I couldn't see any indication that it does. I'd feel cagey about investing many hours creating data on a web-based cloud platform, that could go away at any moment, taking all that work with it.
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Mark Ogden
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 943
From: Little Falls, N.J.
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 11-08-2018 06:31 PM
This was me for a long time. I had a killer high-end system, SOTA Sapphire turntable, Koetsu moving-coil cartridge, Vandersteen speakers, Naim amp, VPI vacuum record cleaner. Used to love it, but it also made me nuts. I couldn't stop fiddling with it all. Clean the record, check the anti-skate, check the tracking force, dial in the cartridge alignment. Tweaktweaktweaktweak. I wasn't enjoying the music because I became paranoid as to whether I was getting the best possible sound. Then one night I made the mistake of visiting a friend's father, a legendary Columbia Records recording engineer, and hearing HIS system, which consisted of a nearly $100,000 Rockport Technologies Sirius turntable and god knows what else he had. Huge speakers and racks of tube amps, cables the width of my fist. I went home shattered.
Today, my entire music system is a Grace Design M920 DAC/Headphone amp and a pair of Sennheiser HD650 headphones, fed from an iMac. I get great satisfaction and excellent reproduction without the bother. I still have 500+ LPs, though. I wonder what will become of them.
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