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I am looking to add a VFD and 3 phase synchronous motor to a late model (2007) Christie P35GPS projector for precise motor ramping and speed control. This is for changeover ability. I'd prefer the input voltage to VFD to be 120V but I can do 240V if necessary. What does everyone recommend? Are there going to be any gotchas for actually mounting the motor the projector? Thanks.
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I'd probably use a Lenze SM Vector VFD and a Bodine inverter motor. You can get the Lenze with 120V input and 3-phase 230 output. It's been awhile but you'd want to match the "frame" size (e.g. 48R) and then you need to ensure that the shaft of the motor and the gear in the Christie will also mate up or one will need to be modified to fit the other. You should be able to measure the existing motor and check its name plate to try and get as close to the physical size motor as possible so you keep your modifications to a minimum.
Don't be afraid to have a more powerful VFD than the motor (e.g. a 1HP inverter on a 1/4HP motor). How you set your ramp ups/downs and torque will control things properly. Conversely, if you go too small on the VFD, you can over-current on projector start as that is when everything is under load. Once the projector is up to speed, the load drops significantly.
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Thanks for the input. I poked around Bodine's website and I found one that seems to fit. 48R series model 2244. Motor type: 48R5BFYP. It's close to the original motor which was a 48R5BFDY. The RPM's match up as does the frequency. Two slight concerns is that the older motor is a 1/8 HP while the one I'm looking at is 1/3 HP. Since this is a 3 phase motor that will go through a VFD, I wouldn't think the change in HP would matter, as the original one was a single phase motor, but I'm not sure. The other slight issue is that drive shaft of the original motor is slightly thinner and shorter than the new one. So it seems I would have to swap the shafts or bore out the gear and flywheel. There don't seem to be any other motors that are close enough that they offer.Comment
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Matt:
RE the drive pulley you can find one of the same tooth count and pitch at a good bearing shop. To enlarge the flywheel bore you MUST take it to a machinist who can get it dead nuts on in size and most importantly, centering and balance. I tried a "DIY" flywheel bore on one for my old test stand, and it shook like crazy. Another option and a lot easier (Cheaper) is to remove the rotor from the motor and let a machinist turn the shaft end down to match the OEM motor. If you are unsure of how to remove the rotor properly (Any shims, washers or spacers must be put back exactly as they were,) then take the whole motor to the machinist or a motor shop. (This will void the Bodine warranty however.)
The extra shaft length will most likely not matter at all, as there is room inside the projector for it to clear everything IIRC.
The increase in horsepower will not matter, in fact the new motor will run cooler (with slightly increased power draw) but it won't hurt the projector at all.
The one thing that always irritated me about Bodine is that you have to get the wire terminals boxes as an option, where most every other brand includes it as part of the price. (And Bodines are overpriced IMHO.)
The Lanze VFD is a really good one. Others that do well are made by ABB and Danfoss (or as I call them, Damnfussy as they are a pain to set up and program.)Comment
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Good to know on the HP difference. I agree the easiest solution would be to have either Bodine(if they're willing) or a machine shop turn the shaft down to fit the original flywheel and drive gear. Seems a lot safer than the other method. I just see loop loss if those two don't spin true and centered. I'll probably reach to Bodine to see if they can do the modification.
I do like the VFD Steve suggested. Luckily I won't start the actual conversion of my booth until sometime this summer. I am in the planning and gathering phase right now.Comment
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Back in the day...we used to make all sorts of machines variable speed. We mostly used TB Woods VFDs. I liked their "Micro Drive" series but the availability of those dried up and since we were using Lenze controllers in Kinotons (factory), I looked into that line and happened upon the SMVector and it was stocked well in the States.
Here is a photo of a Kinoton DP75 that we modified with the SMVector and the Bodine motor. Note, we omitted the flywheel as VFD motors normally don't benefit much from them. We ramp up and down. There shouldn't be much flywheel action going on with a 3-phase motor and verifying with a strobe proved us right. It was driving the intermittent, which has a flywheel on its own.
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No need for Tony's wire terminal box while it was sitting in Kinoton column. A little spiral wrap was all that was needed to direct those wires around. In our case, we had that pulley's collet bored out to fit the ⅝" shaft.
Also, do yourself a favor, most VFDs let you specify the RPM display as a scaler number. Turn whatever your nominal frequency is for 24fps such that the display reads 2400 RPM (regarless what it is turning). In my case, we were turning at 48Hz. So the scaler was 50 which had the display read 2400 when the VFD is at 48Hz...or in other words, the display is reading 24.00 fps. Thus, as you ramp the speed, you get the VFD reading in FPS...which is what you normally want. We set this one up with preset speeds of 24 and 30fps.Comment
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In all our Victoria 5 and 8 installations we used the Baldor line of motor drives only had one fail and on two prevost 35/70 machines we used Gavazi drives
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In your case I agree with Steve. But I have also found Baldor VFD are very reliable, I used them on a lot of DP-70's. Just be careful... If you need to interlock two projectors, you need a certain Baldor controller to get exact speed. The standard drive box is asynchronous. On the DP-70's we also added an automatic jog to thread position via another small controller..Comment
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Going to hop on this thread since I'm also investigating fitting inverter drives, though for a pair of DP-70's. Has anyone had an bad experience with the Fuji Electric FRENIC Mini-C2 series? They seem to have all the features I'm looking for and are easily available in our desired configuration.Comment
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Matt, I don't think that's the right motor for the P35GP I have been down this road and you need one with a "C" mounting face. Christie had 48R motors custom made with the additional mounting holes an an OEM the regular 48R series don't have those mounting holes I believe 42R6BFPP is the one that fits the factory motor mount and pulley. You don't need the flywheel. I have one brand new never used outside of a test I will send you just cover the shipping.
I have had good luck with the Automation Direct GS line.
Thomas, I am actually in the process of outfitting two DP-70/AAII's with variable speed motors currently, you are welcome to come by and see how we do it.Comment
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Steve, I like the idea of having the display RPM as 2400 to represent 24 fps, that's a nice touch. That's great if I can ditch the flywheel since there is much more control with the VFD.
Sean, thanks. I sent you a PM.Comment
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I remember seeing them in progress when I came by in early January, they looked great! I know I took a photo of the motor (which is very similar to the model linked above, as it happens), but not the inverters. We did find all the parts we will need; I just wanted to make sure we weren't accidentally picking up hardware that people have had poor experiences with.Originally posted by Sean McKinnon View PostComment
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Sean, the motor in his link has that "C" mounting face, which is clearly shown on the shaft end in the photo. You just remove the normal mounting base, it is held on the motor with a few screws. The additional mount holes can be added with a drill and tap without too much difficulty. In reality, he could also most likely simply swap shaft end motor end bells between the old and new.Originally posted by Sean McKinnon View Post
All of which is of course a moot point with your generous offer to send him a motor..is the one you have 3 phase? That is the whole reason for the swap. If so, your offer is the best and easiest solution.
Do you have a link toe the AD drives you specifically use? How are they price wise compared to say Lenze or Danfoss?
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Here's how I made the DP-70 mounts... The coupling is just a modified Lord coupling. Nothing on the coupling to unscrew to get the motor off. The Baldor motors also come in the C mount.You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 1 photos.Comment
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