Five screen channel list - help needed

[Andrea Rossi]

@ Stefan:

Around the world in 80 days 1956 8-tracks - got it!

@ Steve:

if many theaters did not connect the LC/RC even before the arrival of Dolby Stereo 70mm, it doesn't mean the 6-tracks produced until then did not include them; I mean, I'm sure there were some tracks with no LC/RC or with simple spreads from L C R, but HOW someone could know it? I based my research on experience of people that posted their memories online on forums, webpages, newsgroups, but I have no way to know what was what...

For what I understood:
- magnetic six-tracks before Dolby Stereo were based on TODD-AO - L LC C RC R S (later knows as Format 40)
- Dolby Stereo followed this channel order adding its noise reduction (Format 41)
- then it changed to L C R S plus "baby boom" (Format 42)
- then it changed to L C R LS RS plus LFE (Format 43)
- Format 44 is like format 41 but encoded in SRD (never had a release it seems)
- Format 45 is like format 42 but encoded in SRD
- Format 46 is like format 43 but encoded in SRD

Not sure about the formats 44 45 46, but the formats 40 41 42 43 were clearly written onto Dolby Cinema Processor CP-200 faceplate.

@ Allan:

thanks for the info; I got this list about Cinerama; where all 7-tracks?

Black Tulip, The 1965 filmed in MCS-70; presented in 70 mm Cinerama in Europe only
Chronicle of Flaming Years 1965 filmed in Sovscope 70; presented in 70 mm Cinerama in Europe only
Cinerama Holiday 1955
Cinerama's Russian Adventure 1965 Cinerama & Sovscope 70
Great Waltz, The 1972 filmed in 35 mm Panavision, presented in 70 mm Cinerama in UK only
Holiday in Spain 1962 a re-edited version of Scent of Mystery; originally filmed in Todd-70; converted to 3-strip Cinemiracle and exhibited in both Cinemiracle and Cinerama
How the West Was Won 1962 3-strip Cinerama, although some sequences were filmed in Ultra Panavision 70
La Fayette 1961 filmed in Super Technirama 70; presented in 70 mm Cinerama in Europe only
Mediterranean Holiday 1964 filmed in Modern Cinema System 70mm (Wonderama); presented in 70 mm Cinerama
Run, Run, Joe! 1974 filmed in Todd-AO 35, presented in 70 mm Cinerama in UK only
Search for Paradise 1957 3-strip Cinerama
Seven Wonders of the World 1956 3-strip Cinerama
South Seas Adventure 1958 3-strip Cinerama
Windjammer 1958 originally filmed in 3-strip Cinemiracle; later exhibited in Cinerama
Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm, The 1962 3-strip Cinerama

Kinopanorama 9-track feature films:

Закон Антарктиды Law of Antarctica, The 1962
Крепостная актриса Serf Actress, The 1963
Озорные повороты Naughty Curves 1961
Оптимистическая трагедия Optimistic Tragedy, The 1963
Повесть пламенных лет Chronicle of Flaming Years 1960
Секрет успеха Secret of My Success. The 1965
Спящая красавица Sleeping Beauty, The 1964
Суд сумасшедших Judgment of the Mad 1961
Течёт Волга Volga Flows On, The 1963
Удивительная охота Amazing Hunting 1961

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I decided to unite this list and the DTS-SV 70mm one into a single list, updated; you will find it in the next new thread here:
http://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/d...m-audio-tracks
from now on, I'll post there, so please continue to reply in that new thread, thanks!

---

[Steve Guttag]

For what I understood:
- magnetic six-tracks before Dolby Stereo were based on TODD-AO - L LC C RC R S (later knows as Format 40)
- Dolby Stereo followed this channel order adding its noise reduction (Format 41)
- then it changed to L C R S plus "baby boom" (Format 42)
- then it changed to L C R LS RS plus LFE (Format 43)
- Format 44 is like format 41 but encoded in SRD (never had a release it seems)
- Format 45 is like format 42 but encoded in SRD
- Format 46 is like format 43 but encoded in SRD

Not sure about the formats 44 45 46, but the formats 40 41 42 43 were clearly written onto Dolby Cinema Processor CP-200 facepla

Just stop...you are putting your presumptions ahead of reality. The capability of the 70mm 6-track format was, indeed what we would later call format 40 (the format numbers really only have meaning for the CP200 as it was the only processor that actually used the two digit number to select a format. For all other processors, it was just text).

Before the CP200 (debut in 1980 with its first major release being The Empire Strikes Back...if you got one for that title, its red was darker, its grey was darker and the serial number was under 40 and maybe under 30)...the one I worked with was in the 20s), was the CP100, which had no such format numbering and the first 70mm Dolby Stereo features used the CP100.

The realities are, tracks 2 and 4 were being abandoned BEFORE Dolby came along. As mentioned before, the soundtracks, generally the last thing to be finished before a release, were topping out at 4-tracks, if they were to get a "stereo" mix, by the mid-70s. Dolby was merely reclaiming otherwise dead tracks for something that would actually improve what was being done, bass-extension, which was not part of the original CP100 configuration. It had 5 EQ cards in its chassis for the 5-screen channels (with Surround always having to pick up processing externally).

When the format, later referred to as 42 came out, for those with the CP100, one could remove their EQ cards from Le/Re and replace them with CAT 105D cards that had downward expanders and low pass filters to allow just the bass section of the more popular A4 speaker (or whatever you had) to function as just bass channels). The pivot point was really in 1977 with Star Wars. At that point, I don't know of many 70mm issues, of new titles, that did not adopt the format known as 42 as the default. If you really think there was full-range information on tracks 2 and 4 for any titles after 1977, I submit you'd need to prove that. From personal experience from 1980 onwards, and I ran or was responsible for a LOT of 70mm from that point, I didn't see it come through the theatres. On 70mm festivals, sure. On reissues, sure but those theatres that catered to that sort of thing had the equipment already installed before Dolby Stereo came along.

What you may or may not appreciate is just how rare a Stereo movie was, 70mm, or 35mm was. Most theatres getting Dolby Stereo equipment were retrofits to utilize existing speakers (and amps, in some cases). It wasn't until the 1980s when blow-ups and multiplexes went into high-gear that new-builds were getting a fair number of 70mm screens and it was more towards the middle/end of that decade. I want to say that Stereo releases before 1984 or so were in the 10-20% range...at best. Do you realize that even "tech" movies like The Terminator were released in just mono? High-brow movies were almost all mono in the early '80s.

I bring this up to emphasize that they were not mixing for 6-track. There was nothing on tracks 2 and 4 but bass extension (format 42 or format 42 compatible). Your hopes and guesses for this large database of true 6-track films (including spread mixes) after the mid 1970s just isn't there. Your belief that all movies before Dolby would have something on tracks 2 and 4 is also unfounded. Sure, that was the design of the format in the 1950s. It was definitely done throughout the 1960s but it was waning by the end of the 1960s and early 1970s.

I never handled 70mm prints of the Irwin Allen movies to know if they had anything on tracks 2 and 4 and I'd be interested to know. Patton from 1970 did.

Perhaps someone like Sam Chavez could chime in as he might have handled such movies in that era.

As to other formats like 44-46...that is the wild-west, as we say here. Anything Dolby didn't officially assign a number to was up for grabs. Here is a screen shot of one of my installations...the numbers will not align with what others claim to be formats beyond what Dolby published in the CP200-CP650 manuals:

Screen Shot 2023-03-19 at 4.50.37 PM.png

[Andrea Rossi]

Thanks for the very interesting comment, Steve!

The whole "format affaire" is just to have something to put on the list - I could change them to
Dolby Stereo TODD-AO format (of five-screen channel)
Dolby Stereo mono surround
Dolby Stereo stereo surround
Dolby Stereo mono surround with Spectral Recording
Dolby Stereo stereo surround with Spectral Recording
but they are quite long

If you take a look at the updated list in the new thread, now the post-1980s releases should be OK.
The official Dolby list has only 70mm Dolby Stereo mono and stereo surround; no mention of Spectral Recording.

So, it must be assumed that, even if 6-track is capable of, well, six tracks, actually not many take advantage of the full channels, right?
As saying Dolby Stereo 35mm was capable of 4 (matrixed) channels L C R S, but maybe some did not use surround; indeed, at the end of the official Dolby list, there is the following statement:

The degree to which surround channels are utilized varies from film to film at the artistic discretion of the director.

I did not put in the list many 70mm blow-up, as I assumed (again, according to what I gathered) they used the 4-track master and thanks to 6-track they could send them non-matrixed, leaving LC/RC channels empty.

I've updated the new list according to what you wrote, changing from (five-screen channel) probably to unknown.
And you were completely right: I put my presumptions ahead of reality! Thanks again for the precious insights!

[Allan Young]

It seems you're considering that the panning of single or double surround channels counts as a different "track" (e.g. Scent of Mystery). In which case, the early Cinerama/Cinemiracle films should be listed as 8-track:
This is Cinerama (1952) (which is missing from your list)
Cinerama Holiday (1955)
Seven Wonders of the World (1956)
Search for Paradise (1957)
South Seas Adventure (1958)
Windjammer (1958)

The later three-strip releases did away with panning the surround tracks so they're correctly listed as 7-track (The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm, How the West Was Won, Holiday in Spain).

That leaves The Best of Cinerama (1963) (which is still missing from your list) and Cinerama's Russian Adventure. Given that the surround channel panning was a costly manual process, it's highly likely these were 7-track titles.

Only the three-strip titles had 7-track or 8-track sound, so the following 70mm releases you have listed as 7-track were actually only 6-track:
The Black Tulip
The Great Waltz
La Fayette
Mediterranean Holiday
Run, Run, Joe!

[Allan Young]

Kinopanorama 9-track feature films:

Закон Антарктиды Law of Antarctica, The 1962
Крепостная актриса Serf Actress, The 1963
Озорные повороты Naughty Curves 1961
Оптимистическая трагедия Optimistic Tragedy, The 1963
Повесть пламенных лет Chronicle of Flaming Years 1960
Секрет успеха Secret of My Success. The 1965
Спящая красавица Sleeping Beauty, The 1964
Суд сумасшедших Judgment of the Mad 1961
Течёт Волга Volga Flows On, The 1963
Удивительная охота Amazing Hunting 1961

Not sure where you got this list from but it's partial, has some incorrect dating and includes a couple of non-Kinopanorama titles.

The following from your list are definitely Kinopanorama 9-track. I've corrected the dates.
Повесть пламенных лет Chronicle of Flaming Years 1961
Озорные повороты Naughty Curves 1962
Суд сумасшедших Judgment of the Mad 1962
Удивительная охота Amazing Hunting 1962
Оптимистическая трагедия Optimistic Tragedy, The 1963
Течёт Волга The Volga Flows On, The 1963
Спящая красавица Sleeping Beauty, The 1964

As far as I'm aware, these titles in your list were not Kinopanorama.
Закон Антарктиды Law of Antarctica, The 1962*
Крепостная актриса Serf Actress, The 1963
Секрет успеха Secret of My Success. The 1965

These are the missing 9-track Kinopanorama titles.
Great Is My Country (1958)
The Enchanted Mirror (1958)
Two Hours in the U.S.S.R. (1959)
Chas neozkhidannykh puteshestviy v polyote na vertolyote (1960) (google translate: An Hour of Unstoppable Travel in a Helicopter Flight)
Chetvyortaya programma panoramikh filmov "tsirkoyoye predstavleniye" i "na krasnoy ploschadyu" (1961) (google translate: The Fourth Program of Panorama Films "Circus Performance" and "On Red Square")
A Frenchman in Moscow (1960)
SSSR s otkritim serddem (1961) (google translate: USSR With Open Heart)
V Antarktiku za kitami (1961) (google translate: In the Antarctic for Whales)*
Volga Volga (1962) (re-edited version of The Volga Flows On)
Batmanova, Singing Slave (1963)
Na podvodnikh skuterakh (1963) (google translate: On Underwater Scooters)
Zimnie ztyutsi (1963) (google translate: Winter Colds)
Delifini prikhodyat k lyudyam (1966) (google translate: Dolphins Come to People)

(*I guess these could be the same title with different translation.)

[Andrea Rossi]

Thanks for the info!

About Kinopanorama: found here https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinopanorama

These are listed there as feature films:
Закон Антарктиды Law of Antarctica, The 1962*
Секрет успеха Secret of My Success. The 1965
Крепостная актриса Serf Actress, The 1963 = Batmanova, Singing Slave (1963) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Serf_Actress

I left out the others because they are shorts or documentaries (aren't they?); I'd like to include only movies (exception to the rule are the two Todd-AO shorts)

So, this is the updated list of Cinerama and Kinopanorama:

✅ Best of Cinerama, The (1963) [7-track] Cinerama three-strip
✅ Black Tulip, The (1965) [6-track] Cinerama 70mm
✅ Cinerama Holiday (1955) [8-track] Cinerama three-strip
✅ Cinerama's Russian Adventure (1965) [7-track] Cinerama three-strip
✅ Great Waltz, The (1972) [6-track] Cinerama 70mm
✅ Holiday in Spain (1962) [7-track] Cinerama three-strip
✅ How the West Was Won (1962) [7-track] Cinerama three-strip
✅ La Fayette (1961) [6-track] Cinerama 70mm
✅ Mediterranean Holiday (1964) [6-track] Cinerama 70mm
✅ Run, Run, Joe! (1974) [6-track] Cinerama 70mm
✅ Search for Paradise (1957) [8-track] Cinerama three-strip
✅ Seven Wonders of the World (1956) [8-track] Cinerama three-strip
✅ South Seas Adventure (1958) [8-track] Cinerama three-strip
✅ This is Cinerama (1952) [8-track] Cinerama three-strip
✅ Windjammer (1958) [8-track] Cinerama three-strip
✅ Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm, The (1962) [7-track] Cinerama three-strip

✅ Amazing Hunting (1962) [9-track] Kinopanorama
✅ Chronicle of Flaming Years (1961) [9-track] Kinopanorama
✅ Judgment of the Mad (1962) [9-track] Kinopanorama
✅ Law of Antarctica, The (1962) [9-track] Kinopanorama
✅ Naughty Curves (1962) [9-track] Kinopanorama
✅ Optimistic Tragedy, The (1963) [9-track] Kinopanorama
✅ Secret of My Success. The (1965) [9-track] Kinopanorama
✅ Serf Actress, The (1963) [9-track] Kinopanorama
✅ Sleeping Beauty, The (1964) [9-track] Kinopanorama
✅ Volga Flows On, The (1963) [9-track] Kinopanorama

[Allan Young]

I left out the others because they are shorts or documentaries (aren't they?); I'd like to include only movies (exception to the rule are the two Todd-AO shorts)

Before I spend any more time refining your list, can I clarify what you mean by this? Are you planning to exclude feature-length documentaries?

[Andrea Rossi]

Yes Allan, I'd like to include only feature-lenght movies - hence excluding documentaries, shorts etc.

I wrote it in the new thread and in the old DTS-SV, but I forgot to mention it in this list!

sorry SORRY SORRY!

It would be great if you want to continue to help anyway; sadly it's not possible (for me at least) to edit posts after some time, so I can't updated list here or there; but I'm updating mine meanwhile, and as it takes two posts because too long, I'll post it from time to time there: http://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/d...m-audio-tracks

[Gordon McLeod]

Thanks for the very interesting comment, Steve!

The whole "format affaire" is just to have something to put on the list - I could change them to
Dolby Stereo TODD-AO format (of five-screen channel)
Dolby Stereo mono surround
Dolby Stereo stereo surround
Dolby Stereo mono surround with Spectral Recording
Dolby Stereo stereo surround with Spectral Recording
but they are quite long

If you take a look at the updated list in the new thread, now the post-1980s releases should be OK.
The official Dolby list has only 70mm Dolby Stereo mono and stereo surround; no mention of Spectral Recording.

So, it must be assumed that, even if 6-track is capable of, well, six tracks, actually not many take advantage of the full channels, right?
As saying Dolby Stereo 35mm was capable of 4 (matrixed) channels L C R S, but maybe some did not use surround; indeed, at the end of the official Dolby list, there is the following statement:



I did not put in the list many 70mm blow-up, as I assumed (again, according to what I gathered) they used the 4-track master and thanks to 6-track they could send them non-matrixed, leaving LC/RC channels empty.

I've updated the new list according to what you wrote, changing from (five-screen channel) probably to unknown.
And you were completely right: I put my presumptions ahead of reality! Thanks again for the precious insights!

Remember that Dolby Optical Stereo was originally 3 channel LCR with no surrounds as was provided by the pentoptical module in a CP100 or the Cat 110 in cp50 and when surround was introduced they requried a outboard decoder initially SA1 up to SA4 for 35mm and for the CP100 the SA5 allowed for format 43 for Apocalypse Now and Superman

[Andrea Rossi]

Remember that Dolby Optical Stereo was originally 3 channel LCR with no surrounds as was provided by the pentoptical module in a CP100 or the Cat 110 in cp50 and when surround was introduced they requried a outboard decoder initially SA1 up to SA4 for 35mm and for the CP100 the SA5 allowed for format 43 for Apocalypse Now and Superman

Thanks! But the LCR with no surround applies (technically, I mean) only to Dolby matrix, not to 70mm magnetic, right? And, the movies encoded in Dolby (matrix) Stereo at the beginning, did have the surround channel encoded nevertheless (leaving just the decoders without it), or it was added lately with a new chip? There was something about Tate and Sansui SQ, but can't recall properly...

[Gordon McLeod]

Andrea said " And, the movies encoded in Dolby (matrix) Stereo at the beginning, did have the surround channel encoded nevertheless (leaving just the decoders without it)"
Incorrect the first matrix movies had no surround information encoded on them. As such it was called format 03 for the CP200 on the CP50 and 100 one selected Dolby Stereo no surround.
The first surround matrix used the QS Sansui quad chip to decode the surround post centre channel extraction on the 110 or pentoptical module. The first improvement increasing the channel seperation from 6db was the use of the Tate SQ chipset

[Larry Blake]

Hello:

As Steve Guttag noted above, I'm a big proponent of the five-screen channel format. I can tell you definitively that the following movies that I mixed used five screen channels extensively and intentionally, and not as some sort of after-the-fact upmix:

Out of Sight: 1998
Erin Brockovich: 2000
Ocean's Eleven: 2001
Solaris: 2002
Ocean's Twelve: 2004

And that's it for me. After that point, say, starting 2007 which includes Ocean's Thirteen, which I also mixed, SDDS was retreating fast into film sound history footnotes, and the DCI spec had arrived. Which is to say that on Ocean's Twelve we had specific pre-DCI digital cinema versions which required extensive handholding anyway. But I was leery about the chances of a DCP with Lc-Rc information being played properly, even though (someone correct me here if I'm wrong), tracks 7 and 8 in the DCI spec were originally for Lc-Rc.) The four-surround 7.1, which I believe was introduced starting in 2010, was not yet an issue, but today certainly confuses things because the above movies were also in "7.1." (So in my file names for those movies I use "7.1SDDS," even though I'm of course well aware of the format's beginnings with Cinerama and its perfection with the Todd-AO format primarily during the period from 1955-1971.)

While on this topic, here's something that I've not read about ANYWHERE, something that's hiding in plain sight. Quick question/riddle: where today can one easily find five-screen-channel theaters? The answer is to start with the approximately 300 Dolby Cinema theaters worldwide, because (AFAIK) every one of them has five screen channels. That is, they all have wider-than-40-ft screens, and thus have to have them per Dolby's rule for Atmos installations. What percentage of the non-Dolby Cinema, but still Atmos commercial theaters have five screen channels, I would not hazard a guess, but good money has that it's a Very Large number.

Dolby's reason for the five screen channels is to smooth out pans. That's all well and good, but there are a host of other reasons for using the five channels, and it's bloody easy to do: you just create "static objects" in the locations of the Lc and Rc channels, and Bob becomes your uncle.

Five years ago I remastered Solaris and indeed we made a "7.1 SDDS" Atmos version in this manner.

I'm going to have to ask around to my re-recording mixers colleagues who do many Atmos movies if they've ever used five screen screen channels with static objects in this manner.

I've never mixed a movie in "native Atmos" from the get-go, and were I ever to do so, this is how I'd do it. Fugeddabout the ridiculous objects flying in every direction or the ridiculous overhead speakers. To paraphrase Mark Knopfler, I want my five screen channels!

Best to all.

[Andrea Rossi]

Larry, thanks for the very interesting insights - we need a new thread about SDDS 8 channel, I guess!

I wonder if SDDS-8 had the same issue as 70mm 6-track - the channel spread.
I mean, I always thought that SDDS-8 tracks were always mixed using the inner LE RE channels "properly", at least according to what I read on various magazines that interviewed the sound engineers.

Are you aware of some SDDS-8 mixes that were actually three screen channels mixes but spread over five?

[Steve Guttag]

... But I was leery about the chances of a DCP with Lc-Rc information being played properly, even though (someone correct me here if I'm wrong), tracks 7 and 8 in the DCI spec were originally for Lc-Rc.) The four-surround 7.1, which I believe was introduced starting in 2010, was not yet an issue, but today certainly confuses things because the above movies were also in "7.1." (So in my file names for those movies I use "7.1SDDS,"...

This is correct. Channels 7 and 8 were originally LC/RC. Channels 15/16 were to be the ADA channels but this gave way as the need for the ADA (particularly VI-N) was high and early servers did not support or completely support channels 9-16. So, LC/RC moved to channels 9 and 10, where they reside, to this day...and I am unaware of any DCP release that has used them in that manner.

Note, too, in the early stages of DCinema development, Surround-EX was still a thing, not 7.1 and one can still see vetages of EX in some digital cinema equipment and TMSes (e.g. TCC/ACE still have a CHANNEL_61 cue and the CP750 could perform an EX decode on the surrounds). However, when Surround 7.1 came out, that was it for any sort of EX continuation. They were assigned the next pair of 11 and 12...where they reside to this day. Naming wise, we had two 7.1 configurations so the traditional 5-across was designated as 7.1SDS (yes, missing the other D).

While on this topic, here's something that I've not read about ANYWHERE, something that's hiding in plain sight. Quick question/riddle: where today can one easily find five-screen-channel theaters? The answer is to start with the approximately 300 Dolby Cinema theaters worldwide, because (AFAIK) every one of them has five screen channels. That is, they all have wider-than-40-ft screens, and thus have to have them per Dolby's rule for Atmos installations. What percentage of the non-Dolby Cinema, but still Atmos commercial theaters have five screen channels, I would not hazard a guess, but good money has that it's a Very Large number.

I cannot speak to commercial cinemas but I'm currently working on a Dolby Cinema that will have just 3-screen channels. It is in a multi-use room and non-commercial cinema. The screen is less than 40-feet wide. So, I can assure you, not 100% of Dolby Cinemas are 5-across. I can assure you that all of the Dolby Atmos rooms that I have had a hand in designing are..even on smaller than 40-foot wide screens in screening rooms. All of my commercial Dolby Atmos rooms (which are always the largest auditoriums in the complex) have 5-screen channels and the surrounds are never culled or paired. If you record it, it will play it as recorded.

Five years ago I remastered Solaris and indeed we made a "7.1 SDDS" Atmos version in this manner.

I believe the DCP version of Oklahoma! was offered in Atmos for this reason. They placed LC/RC statically as objects. When the AFI/Silver, not a Dolby Atmos theatre, received the title, they had to run it in 5.1! They issued a 7.1 version file but that just dropped the back surrounds! I checked to see if they had placed anything on tracks 9/10 and called it 7.1...nope. They should have issued that movie as a "60" on DCP as a version file. That is the whole purpose of VERSION FILES is to provide for different things like sound mixes. When running a "classic" title, at the very least, offer the original mix. Those that can't support it can have the 5.1 version. Those that can...you know, the theatres that run classic 70mm titles, can run it with the classical track configuration. Furthermore, the odds that a title like Oklahoma! finds its way into a theatre like the AFI/Silver is FAR higher than in commercial Atmos theatres (and with higher regularity). These rooms, if they run 70mm will tend to have 5-across and a means to use them for film or DCP. They do not, necessarily, have Atmos.

[Martin Brooks]

Larry, thanks for the very interesting insights - we need a new thread about SDDS 8 channel, I guess!

I wonder if SDDS-8 had the same issue as 70mm 6-track - the channel spread.
I mean, I always thought that SDDS-8 tracks were always mixed using the inner LE RE channels "properly", at least according to what I read on various magazines that interviewed the sound engineers.

Are you aware of some SDDS-8 mixes that were actually three screen channels mixes but spread over five?

Back in the day, I consulted for a company that evaluated presentation on opening day. We were not permitted to talk to any theater employees. We did have to indicate the audio format. Whenever I went to an SDDS-8 film in a theater that claimed it was playing it in that sound format, I could never perceive LC and RC.