70 mm Dune part two

[David J Hilsgen]

Has anybody heard what the deal is ,is it strictly 70 IMAX or is it also going to be released in 5 perf 70

[Jim Cassedy]

A lab rat confirms that there are some 5/70 prints being made. But exactly how many
and where they'll wind up is still not open info at this time.

Disclaimer: The term "lab rat' is not to be taken in a derogatory sense. I worked in a
film lab for a year or so, and we staff gleefully referred to ourselves as "the lab rats"

[Lyle Romer]

What is the point of a 70mm film release of a movie shot digitally? It isn't going to look any better than it does projected with 4k laser.

[James Biggins]

What is the point of a 70mm film release of a movie shot digitally? It isn't going to look any better than it does projected with 4k laser.

Hype of course. No other explanation would make any sense.

[Bobby Henderson]

I would say the same thing about a movie shot on 5/65mm film, but pushed through a 2K or 4K digital-based work flow in post production and then laser-recorded back out to 5/70mm.

I would be more excited about these 70mm prints output from digital sources if they would generate something better than a 4K master. Considering all the advancements that have been made in computer technology over the past decade it should be feasible to do post production work in 8K. That might be something that would give a 5/70mm film print an edge over a 4K laser projector or UHD TV in someone's living room.

[Scott Norwood]

I've also heard rumors of a 5/70 release.

[Henry Atkinson]

What is the point of a 70mm film release of a movie shot digitally? It isn't going to look any better than it does projected with 4k laser.

Also keep in mind that most places aren't running a 4k laser... 5/70 would look a lot better than anything DLP (contrast ratio and brightness wise), and certainly better than anything 2k. Plus, no speckle and color fringing like you see on so many laser installations lately.

[Leo Enticknap]

But unless you get to see the print at its first or second booking, it will likely be scratched to buggery.

Incidentally, if you observe color fringing in a screening involving any DCI projector (not just 4K laser), ask the theater manager to have a tech check the light engine convergence using test patterns, and adjust as necessary. That is easily fixable. On Barco Series 2 projectors (maintenance "C"), the manufacturer's recommendation is that this be done annually. I don't know off the top of my head what the formal recommendation is for others, but I would check any NEC or Christie that hasn't received any attention from a tech in over a year (or, obviously, if I can see a problem without having to put up a test pattern), too.

[Henry Atkinson]

But unless you get to see the print at its first or second booking, it will likely be scratched to buggery.

This is probably the unfortunate truth, platters make inattentiveness easy, and its at the end of the day down to the projectionist to care for a print... and I doubt they're going to pay people enough to take proper care of these prints.

[Brad Miller]

This is probably the unfortunate truth, platters make inattentiveness easy, and its at the end of the day down to the projectionist to care for a print... and I doubt they're going to pay people enough to take proper care of these prints.

They have been paying people very well for running a single screen on these 70mm reissues. It has nothing to do with the projectionist pay or the platters. The issue is much of the equipment out in the field isn't in the best of condition.

[Bobby Henderson]

Unless some companies start making new 35/70mm film projectors and all the other supporting stuff that goes with them I figure it's only a matter of time before these kinds of film screenings become impossible. I think there definitely is a market out there for film-based showings. But such a thing isn't feasible without a much greater amount of industry support. No one is going to bring a film projector manufacturing line back into operation if only a tiny few theater around the country can run shows.

The same danger exists for digital projection. It sure looks like a lot more existing cinemas are closing than new ones being built. The install base of digital projectors only needs to drop so much before the entire food chain of equipment and parts totally tanks. Things like computer imager chips can't be made in quantities of just a few dozen. An install base of film projectors could probably be as few as hundreds in number for hardware suppliers to still be able to make it financially. Digital-based cinema screens need to number in the thousands, if not tens of thousands for that product line to be feasible.

[Scotty Wright]

I see listings for The Vista in LA and The Grand Lake in Oakland for 5perf 70mm showings of Dune Part Two.

here in Seattle, it’ll be interesting to see if AMC gets a print or SIFF (formerly Seattle Cinerama), or neither.

[Mark Ogden]

Unless some companies start making new 35/70mm film projectors and all the other supporting stuff that goes with them I figure it's only a matter of time before these kinds of film screenings become impossible.

So you would think, but at the same time there are DP-70s, AAlls and even JJs out there merrily rolling along into their 60s, and will probably keep running for a long time yet. I used to know a fellow that had a pair of E-7s and their original receipt from around 1943 ("Better Projection Pays!" it said at the bottom) that kept them going until he passed a few years ago. I imagine that parts availability is an issue, but you have to look at these machines as money-generators to have the desire to keep them up in the first place. That's why it seems to be that 35/70mm machines fare better in non-profits, membership-driven classic single-screens or screening-room environments where there are people dedicated to their upkeep just for such high-profile presentations, as opposed to an AMC or a Regal that just pulls the tarp off once in a while. I'd go out of my way to see a 70mm print at a place like the Somerville or Coolidge Corner in Boston, the Grand in Oakland, the Barrymore here in New Jersey or the Museum of the Moving Image in Astoria before I would drive five miles to the AMC near me that keeps a JJ limping along. For a non-profit, these machines are lifeblood. For AMC, it's an occasional annoyance where they fight over who pays the projectionist.

It’s not just the parts, but the willpower that will see film projection through.

[Bobby Henderson]

When something critical in a film projector breaks that can't be cannibalized off another film projector that film projector will be dead in the water. Someone can't just "3D print" a new reflector, rectifier or anything else critical to make it run. Replacement parts have to be available.

While it is fashionable and fun to shit on chain locations, such as those of AMC, there will not be a future in film screenings if they can't work in those chain theaters. It's a non-starter for only a tiny handful of favorite theater locations to keep a movie presentation format alive. Film-based projection needs hundreds of locations just in the US in order to have a future.

Here is an ironic possibility: since d-cinema technology is dependent on a larger mass-scale install base of theaters in order to make its computer chips and other components commercially viable I can easily imagine a situation where cinemas decline enough in number to where digital-based projection disappears and that the few remaining theaters are just showing film prints. They could film prints tattooed with time code to play a Dolby Atmos track or something. Still, the show would be on film.

Of course the other (more likely) outcome is the whole cinema platform just dies out and we're stuck watching movies only at home.

[Steve Guttag]

Reflectors can be an issue...particularly glass ones. Much of what is used in a film projector can be reproduced either by machining or via 3D printing. And, if the quantity makes sense, even molding (molds for injection molding can be horribly expensive). Things like lamp rectifiers don't have much in the way of consumable parts (high reactance types) and so long as diodes remain available, they are serviceable. So long as the welding industry remains, xenon lamp power supplies can be fabricated (there is more alike between a welding power supply and a xenon power supply than different...so much so IMAX used Miller power supplies on their film projectors).

Sprockets are tricky and I doubt many machine shops are really capable of the precision needed though I know of one entity that is commissioning a run of 35/70 sprockets so it isn't out of the question. Something like that does require a commitment in the believe that one will get their money back over time. It is doubtful that a true unit-cost for a 1-off (or even a 10-off) would be very viable.

I do not see a 35/70 film manufacturer coming on line. Maybe a company like Cinemeccanica that already has the tooling and institutional knowledge could produce V8s in small quantity as I believe they did for H8 (which is already getting near 10-years ago...time slips away). I don't know their state of things now. Most, if not all of the other 35/70 brands are no more or, like Strong are out of the manufacturing business (with respect to film...MDI screens remains).

I think when direct view screens become financially viable (and sound comes from the screen...not around or bounced off of), you'll see projection disappear. There is almost all up sides to direct view. Right now, cost of the screen and the added infrastructure for it make it more of a novelty as the payback on the large ones are going to go beyond the life of typical theatres. But that is going to change as the home and commercial markets will benefit from direct view technology too.