Kelmar cleaner and FilmGuard

[Tomek Lecocq]

Hello,
As Brad sells stuff only with US shipping, what is the recommended place to buy FilmGuard and 35mm media pads in continental Europe?
Also, what is an "ok" price for a Kelmar cleaner? I'm not in such a hurry to need to buy one right away, so I would prefer to know.
Thanks.

[Joshua Camerata]

Should be around $400-500 not including shipping. Email FT directly.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Is there any situation to run/use a Kelmar Cleaner if you only book single showings of a print?
Do studios in fact discourage running wet on their archival/classic/back-catalog prints?

I ask cause we own a mothballed Cleaner (that would need a refurb and supplies)... who knows when it was last in use.
But i'm not sure we have ever shown the same print more than maybe twice before it went back.

[Randy Stankey]

At Mercyhurst, I used Film-Guard for one-offs all the time.

I was in the habit of building the print at the bench, onto 6,000 ft. reels, then spooling them onto the platter. I built a bench mount for the Kelmar cleaner and I used it to give the film a coat of Film-Guard while the film was rewinding. You just have to be careful not to let the rewinder go to fast. I also pre-screened every film so that allowed me to get a second run through the projector. When showtime rolled around, the film usually had two runs through the cleaner. Then, of course, the go-show would also be run through the cleaner. Yes, even with only two or three runs, there was a difference. While I don't hesitate to say that my boss and I didn't see things eye to eye, very often, Film-Guard is one thing we agreed on. In fact, after about half way through the first season of showing films, by his edict, all films were required to be cleaned with Film-Guard before showing to the public.

None of our film distributors ever complained about their films being treated with Film-Guard. I had called and asked about using it but nobody ever denied permission and, to be honest, I don't think more than a handful of them even understood what I was talking about, anyhow. I never got any complaints. We often circuited prints from one place to another and I, sometimes, had occasion to call the next place for confirmation on shipping instructions. On one of those occasions, the guy at the other place commented about the fact that, when they received prints from us, they were always so clean.

Why should anybody, studios or otherwise, complain? They're getting a free cleaning!

Today, however, I would consider using Film-Guard, carefully. The prints that I ran were all regular release prints. Many of them weren't in the best condition when I got them. Using Film-Guard, films almost always left my hands in better condition than I received them in. Nowadays, with flim use being rare, I'd be mindful about using Film-Guard on prints if there is only one copy or if you are running archival prints.

Back in the day, I never had anybody refuse me and I don't think some people even noticed. Today, I think it's best to, at least, call or send an e-mail and ask before you use Film-Guard on somebody else's prints.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Today, however, I would consider using Film-Guard, carefully. The prints that I ran were all regular release prints. Many of them weren't in the best condition when I got them. Using Film-Guard, films almost always left my hands in better condition than I received them in. Nowadays, with flim use being rare, I'd be mindful about using Film-Guard on prints if there is only one copy or if you are running archival prints.

Back in the day, I never had anybody refuse me and I don't think some people even noticed. Today, I think it's best to, at least, call or send an e-mail and ask before you use Film-Guard on somebody else's prints.

That is sort of the impression I get of the state of the situation too. We don't have a cleaner I trust ATM, so I wouldn't do it anyway. And running changeovers it would have to be bench cleaning, cause we only have the one cleaner. It's more about would it even be worth it as a side project to revive our cleaner. I do own one personal print I could clean. ;-)

[Tomek Lecocq]

Thanks for the info about the cleaner.
Still wondering where is the recommended place to buy FilmGuard and 35mm media pads though (in continental Europe).

[Brad Miller]

http://www.film-tech.com/dealers.php

You can also email us and we can setup a custom quote to ship overseas. I think the cheapest way to do it though is for you to sign up for one of those freight-forwarding companies in the US. Typically they charge like $5 to setup your account and then we ship to them (you get a unique mailbox number) and whenever a package arrives for you, it is then sent with a ton of other prints to combine and lower shipping costs.

[Marcel Birgelen]

@Brad

Do you know if there is anything in FilmGuard that's bound to the European ADR/REACH regulations?

Those regulations are there to make sure that the cleaning tissues I recently ordered on-line were shipped with an even more incompetent shipment provider than the rest I ordered from the same company. You wouldn't say it if you'd seen how the box looked they came in, but it's sure good to know they were handled with "extra care"...

[Brad Miller]

It is not considered a hazardous material. We have never had any issues.

[Tomek Lecocq]

You can also email us and we can setup a custom quote to ship overseas

With brexit, it won't be cheaper to send it from the UK dealer instead of the US, so I'll send an email for a custom quote then.

[Jesse Crooks]

Never use it on anything archival. If there is any doubt, ask the lender for permission first. I'll still occasionally use it on shredded studio prints that are absolutely filthy. I primarily use it on prints that we own. Often I'm more concerned about the dirt that filthy prints will shed in the projector rather than improving the presentation of the print I'm cleaning, especially if I'm running a preshow that we own before an archival print.

My current setup is a board-mounted hand rewind station, with the cleaner attached using the auto-wind bracket so that it can be mounted vertically. I previously had it rigged up on my Kelmar table but I wanted to be able to better regulate the tension, and the cleaner wasn't on an even plane with the film path, since the spindles have a backwards tilt.

Is there any situation to run/use a Kelmar Cleaner if you only book single showings of a print?
Do studios in fact discourage running wet on their archival/classic/back-catalog prints?

[Ryan Gallagher]

I had a chance to wipe down and inspect our two christie badged kelmar cleaners from cold storage. They still operate. Could probably use new o-rings on the drive wheel. The rubber portions of the media rollers are a bit challenging. One won't grip the tube on one unit, the other grips it no matter what, probably because they are shrunken and or stored compressed in the locked position. That and new media pads are needed. The drive chains seem to have a lot of slop, but still operate.

I know I can get pads here at film-tech. Are the rubber parts available anywhere? Or anyone know those dimensions?

I noticed that for bench operation on a kelmar inspection table, which is my intent to make them useful again... they seem to lack a needed roller to redirect the outbound film to the takeup reel. Or at least I've seen examples of people using one in a bench context with an extra roller there. My impression is you can turn them 90degrees with the handle up to overhang a bench like in Kyle's video. Any other good approaches?

https://youtu.be/S9KQXRGDqPo?si=klDIaT-h8LRgKhDj&t=16

Were there other models with that roller... or was this always a custom mod for bench cleaning? Kyle's unit looks like a block of aluminum was used to make a mounting plate for that extra roller, as well as some a security rail to grab the bottom of the table a little.

I've got a shelf above our inspection table. Perhaps there is a fun way to have it pull out on an under mounted drawer sliders to line up with the film path. Correcting for the kelmar stand angle seems like something to integrate.

Alternatively I personally own some HFC manual rewinds, perhaps a separate station is ideal. But short on space of course.

As stated above, we would only used this on house prints, cleaning our loops/trailers, and with permission on a gross studio print.

[Jesse Crooks]

I have been lucky enough to have NOS parts so I can't recommend an alternative source, but Kelmar is still in business, so why not buy from them? Hopefully they'll continue to do enough business to keep supporting their line of film-related products.

If the o-rings on the drive wheel are showing signs of wear (ex., cracking) they should definitely be replaced. Same goes for the neoprene tubes on the media pad take-ups. As you say, storing them compressed ruins them faster. I think on all of the ones I've opened the chain drive has had some slack. I would clean off any old lube and add a little bit of SuperLube multi-purpose synthetic to the gears.

With regard to the outbound roller, there should be one mounted to the bracket that's the same type as the roller mounted to the cleaner on the feed reel side. The one in that video is a mod. Looks like either an autowind roller or a platter bypass roller. I don't know what you'd gain by using the larger roller, but it's not necessary. The factor that determines the direction in which you can mount it is the mounting bracket. There are two styles. One is for mounting the cleaner between the projector head and the feed reel arm. It sounds like that might be what you have since you mention wanting to turn them 90 degrees to match the orientation in the video. The other is for mounting the cleaner on a platter tree (autowind bracket, Kelmar part#: 7508229), which is the one in the video. That's the style you'd want for bench cleaning, since it allows you to mount the cleaner with the film path running horizontally (with the cleaner in that orientation, there are holes in the bracket to bolt it DOWN to the table top, whereas the other type of bracket will have the holes on the SIDES).

If you search the archived forum you'll find photos of Steve Guttag's setup, in which he mounted the autowind cleaner bracket to the mounting bracket for a Neumade frame counter (note that the frame counter bracket does not come with holes that align with the cleaner bracket so you'd have to tap your own). That tilts the cleaner back at the same angle as the spindles so there's no twist in the film path, and allows you to hold it in place using the same screw as the frame counter. No additional mods to the table. If you're going to mount it to a Kelmar table, that's the way to do it.

A separate hand rewind station will definitely be the easiest option. And I like being able to lower the tension towards the end of the reel. If you use it infrequently you can always disassemble it for storage.

I only skimmed the video but I did catch him talking about using both sides of the media pads. While that is what we used to do back in the first-run days, I never do that anymore. If I'm bothering to clean a print, it's bad enough that there's too much grime on the pads to want to reuse them. It's not like it used to be, when we'd clean every new print and then keep cleaning them to prevent them from getting dirty in the first place. In that situation it's fine to flip them. If they're heavily soiled after the first pass, toss 'em.

Also, clean the cleaner! That guy's is FILTHY! That mounded up pile of fuzz under the drive wheel looks like it's about to come to life. Between uses, clean off the face of the cleaner, the rollers, the o-rings, and the posts between the media pads. If you flip the media pads and reuse them, the dirt from the used side will build up on those posts since the dirty side is dragged across them.

[Steve Guttag]

I would NEVER flip the pads (use the other side). When running dry, they are a use once in one direction. With Film Guard, you get a week of 5-shows a day on them with a rewind between each performance. I would not use Film-Guard on someone's "Archive" print unless they expressly permit it. However, on distribution prints I would. If I had a my own collection, I would. The benefits seem to outweigh the potential damage (it will keep the film softer and more prone to damage, if it does come into contact with something and it can leach out the dyes in color stock). On the up-side, the look of the film, lack of static, no-vinegar syndrome are all positives for it.

I have been recommending that the 70mm cleaners be used for the recent 70mm releases but I'm not getting much of a response on that. I know that BL&S supplied PTR rollers on the H8 distribution but with the running time of most of these 70mm releases, I don't see much point in those as the dusting would build up too fast on them. They are good for lab work and when you can change them on each reel...not after an entire print. I've used them in screening rooms, for sure, where truly it is just dust that one is concerned about, not dirt.

[Jesse Crooks]

What color stock has this been an issue with? I’ve used it on most common stocks (including plenty of IB Tech) and haven’t had a problem.

The benefits seem to outweigh the potential damage (it will keep the film softer and more prone to damage, if it does come into contact with something and it can leach out the dyes in color stock).