1.85:1 within 5perf70 (and aperture plates?)

[Ryan Gallagher]

Actually in looking at the old Dune 2 threads. The width difference here is only a smidge... and Searchers does seem to fall on the top and bottom full image lines of the RP-91

Maybe i'm just seeing the over-printing of Streets of Fire being the difference between the two and a single set of plates filed for Searchers will suffice.

[Ryan Gallagher]

As an aside for The Searchers, for a 2024 print, it was a bit disappointing to read what the Music Box discovered condition wise when they received the print.
But huge props for sending it along with the print!

[Brad Miller]

The Music Box is great and does a nice job. The interesting thing about this report is that it's slightly better than I expected.

The two biggest offenders seem to be good old fashioned poor film handling skills and some projectors out there are in need of some serious adjustments, as they are heavily scratching into the film outside the picture area. Amateurs proclaim "the film isn't getting scratched" (because they don't see it on screen), but that scratching on the edges causes major shedding, and that shedding is attracted to the film. Each time the film is rewound, it just spreads more and that dirt then starts turning into cinch scratches (worst at the reel changes). Once the dirt reaches a certain level, inevitably vertical line scratches start to appear too.

Out of 30 or 40 venues that play rep 70mm prints, remember it only takes one offender to damage a print (and I can verify there are several guilty of this). Some of those "not great" venues think they are perfect and throw tantrums at the slightest hint of a recommendation (despite their returning prints with damage that was not on the print when they received it). This is a direct contrast from other "not great" venues who are thrilled to learn things that improves their presentation and also extends the life of the print. Case in point, you would be amazed at how many people are running 70mm on Century JJs that don't understand they have to remove the upper 35mm pad roller when running 70mm.

This print of the Searchers is just getting shipped venue to venue, so no theater can be held accountable. Meanwhile by the end of this year it will likely not look all that great. Our approach is to properly inspect the film in between each booking and run it through an ultrasonic cleaner with perc. If the print is permitted to ship from site to site without being properly cleaned in between each booking, it will get worn exponentially faster and eventually not be worthy of being advertised as a 70mm print.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Phew, 1 newly filed 70mm 1.85 plate done, one more to do tomorrow in the AM. But everything else checks out after some side-missions.

- Upper 35 pad rollers indeed removed, thanks everyone for being vigilant on that front.
- Some upper reel arm alignment problems spotted and fixed before rolling anything, everything bigger makes it more obvious.
- JJ parts swapped and even caught a non-factory screw protruding past the back of a gate plate causing a fitment gap (turret model).
- Spreader lenses utilized this year, lamps refocused for 70mm 2.20 frame.
- My "problem" lower pad roller assembly was re-checked in 70mm and adjusted for spacing.
- DTS audio happy and in sync, after it took us a bit to realize the upgraded install on the XD10 had reverted to 35mm TC in the playback menu at some point.
- 4 out of 6 reels inspected and previewed before diving into filing 1st new plate in the afternoon.
- (A few days ago I also triaged our house 70mm reels and buffed any fingernail detectable nicks out of the inside flanges)

Took it real slow, got a good plate, will check our new plates and touch up against RP-91 and feature reels 6 & 7 tomorrow after making the 2nd plate.

Big day jeez! Would have been nice not to have shown 35mm with only a 1 day gap before first 70mm since the pandemic.

Or maybe don't start with the one we don't have plates for. LOL

[Ryan Gallagher]

Afterthought. One of our projectors had a lot of bounce and even some side-to side shift at "normal" gate pressures. Mostly gone with a lot of gate pressure. But would it be worth checking the lateral guide roller spacing tomorrow? Or is this more evidence of pressure straps being due for replacement?

Coincidence or someone's past fix that this was the one with the longer screw protruding past pressure pad, causing the gate pressure to be higher by default?

[Brad Miller]

The XD10 will default to 35mm timecode offset upon power up, so beware. (Again this is where an automation assist system could come in handy.)

Most of the rest of this are "gotchas" specific to running 70mm polyester prints on a Century JJ which for the most part wasn't a huge issue with acetate mag 70mm prints.

Unless the bands are visually damaged, your bounce and weaving issue is almost certainly not the bands. Have you verified the lateral guide roller's internal flange snaps closed when "widened" with your finger? And does the roller spin absolutely freely with no resistance at all? That could be your problem. And while you're checking that, wiggle the outer flange laterally and verify there is no perceptible play. (Be careful making any adjustments to this as you could lose one of the little jewels or create other major problems.) I always recommend doing any adjustments by taking a lid from a banker's box or a similar shaped container and turning it upside down on your work surface to make a "bowl" to work in. Then set the trap on that. At least if the jewel goes running, you stand a chance of finding it.

If all checks out there, be sure and check to see if the studio guides are slightly out of adjustment, as that is typically the second thing that could cause such behavior. Any lateral adjustment to the lateral guide roller's position can create that problem. It can also make the film slightly out of alignment with the intermittent sprocket, causing the film to drag a little bit sideways.

It's also possible the gate azimuth is slightly out of whack, but that starts getting much more difficult to explain how to deal with that because any adjustment to that will in effect end up making MAJOR changes to the gate tension and top to bottom focus on screen.

Keep in mind on the single lens machine the amount of trap closure to the gate is dependent upon the mounting of the lens housing. If you don't know what you are doing, you can easily create major focus problems (typically top to bottom of image) by adjusting it, but that actual position is what will dictate the "gate tension" setting. For example a setting of 12:00 on one machine could be identical to 4:00 on the other machine. The turret model closure is adjusted differently, but is much more difficult to get set just right. Also just an FYI, making the gate closure adjustment to the lens housing can throw ALL of your lenses out of calibration. (If you take one bit of advice from this post away with you, it should be that this is really NOT an adjustment for someone without a lot of JJ experience to be messing with since the chances of making things worse is high.)

Remember you want the least amount of tension possible to maintain a steady image and not chatter. On the single lens model, if turning the gate knob down from whatever setting it is at (let's assume 3:00) down to its minimum position (which in theory will be 12:00) doesn't start to create a loud chatter on polyester dts 70mm film, then it's possible you still have too much tension dictated by the physical gate closure. You could get an approximate guess on how much your gate is over-closing by very, very slightly rotating the knob to open the gate the tiniest amount with it running to see if it starts to get loud just before the image starts to jump vertically. If you have to open it more than what seems like one or two film's thickness, then it's something that needs to be adjusted by someone well-trained on it or you will have unnecessary print wear and shedding. (In a perfect world, the 12:00 position would be noisily chattering (possibly with a little bit of jump) and 2:00 would run the quietest. This way you can go "just a tiny bit too loose" when running the film to verify you are indeed at the lowest possible tension setting and then turn it up slightly to about 2:00 (where it is the quietest and steadiest, but also with the least possible tension) to run the actual show. This method of gate closure calibration still gives you some headroom to increase tension if you have to, but also a little bit of room to lower it down to 1:00 or even 12:00 for running acetate mag prints (which are of course, thicker).

FYI some variations of the trap tension knob will actually run as low as 11:00 and as high as 6:00 on the dial. (And others with issues could be something like 9:00-3:00.) The point being you want that magic point to be roughly "2 hours" on the o'clock scale higher than absolute minimum.

Regarding the absolute minimum point, I should warn you that some traps will actually start to INCREASE tension once you go counter-clockwise past 12:00. For example 12:00 could be minimum tension slowly increasing to 6:00 for maximum tension, but it will permit you to turn as far counter-clockwise as 11:00 where 11:00 is roughly equal to 2:00-3:00!!! The only way to know is to pull the trap and rotate the knob on the bench to see it's behavior.

On the turret model, there isn't any good way to check this if you don't have experience and know specifically what you are doing, so I'm not even going to try and write it out. Turret models are fine IF the gate closure was PRECISELY setup to accommodate both polyester and acetate stocks as I (attempted to) describe above, but if you don't have vertical jitter and noisy chatter at the lowest tension (12:00 position) on the turret machine, I can almost guarantee you that it is not quite properly adjusted. From the factory the gate closures are almost guaranteed to be too damn tight and in my experience over the years most of the machines will never have been fine tuned in the field. Of those that have been, sadly most techs (not all though) that make these adjustments still end up with the closure too tight as well.

If you look at the edges of a print where the mag tracks would be (outside the sprocket holes and just barely inside the sprocket holes) you will likely see heavy scratching (and resulting shedding) from the print playing on machines that were not properly aligned, even if there are no "visible scratches on screen". That shedding WILL turn into scratches with repeated running though if the print is not being properly cleaned REGULARLY.

Century was notorious for making small changes to the design as the years passed. Another example is that some models of 70mm traps have a metal bar that protrudes horizontally just below the framing window at the pivot point of the gate bands intended to help the film lay flat on the trap for the projectionist when threading. Do your gates have that? If so that needs to go away! If that is there and your inboard lateral guide roller flange has the tiniest bit of dust or goop preventing it from absolutely spinning totally free and popping open with virtually zero resistance, when you thread it's possible to close the gate such that the film is in between the two lateral guide rollers, but the inner guide roller did not fully snap open. At that point you have slightly curled film in the gate, which most people won't even notice. If you still have that bar mounted in the trap just know that the film will likely be curled toward the lamp and you will lay very light emulsion scratches down the center of the image. (Film curling can cause that too with that piece in there, exaggerated with temperature and humidity shifts.) I always remove those, as without them IF the lateral guide roller isn't working as it should, the worst thing that will happen is the film will appear blurry in the center of the screen, but in focus on the sides (or vice versa)...and that is FAR better than permanently scratching a rate print! Just let it be a warning you need to service that lateral guide roller immediately if you should have a blurry-in-the-center focus issue.

Also don't forget when running polyester 70mm film you have to make the lower loop MUCH smaller than you would think is appropriate or you will lay standing loop scratches on the print! Do you have an idler roller underneath the intermittent sprocket's shoe, or actual loop-slap studio guide rails, or nothing? How the projector is equipped will affect that. For example if you have NOTHING there, the loop at it's smallest point just before the pulldown starts needs to have just enough clearance to insert a Sharpie marker in between the film and the pivot point of the intermittent shoe. No bigger! Regardless you do not want to be running 70mm polyester with the intermittent in it's centered or one-perf low of center position. You want to rack it all the way to the top of its travel, then frame down one perforation and run it THERE. That will help give you the most room for error on the lower loop slapping to prevent loop scratches.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Brad,
2nd plate cut. And just about absorbed your response, but first thing first.

In inspecting our 70mm trap assemblies it appears someone has been in the practice of running them without studio guides, or were mid stream trying to source replacements.

We only have enough to cover our 35mm traps, and two new spares, plus two that look like they were slated for cleaning or retirement.

Should we definitely put those back on? We can use the ones from the 35mm traps today.

[Ryan Gallagher]

The easy things were checked, other than the mystery of the studio guides, which we opted to leave out this time correct or not, since we tested in this state.

Got good stability in both directions after making sure the lock pin on the pressure pad slider (turret version) was pushed all the way in. Only needed the dial on 3:00 after that. The single lens JJ was fine stability wise.

i think I identified that stubby rod near the bottom loop, but it is gonna take some other tools to get to it’s set screw.
Edit: No sorry, that was adjustment rod for the centering of the bottom loop idler roller, will re-check in the trap for the rods you speak of.

I’ll circle back to all the other tuning checks mentioned, and thank you for so much detail. Getting the 2nd plate filed and stability addressed was about all today allowed for.

We have none of our auxiliary loop slap guides in place, but most of them exist in a drawer, some not matching the configuration we have.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Post Screening update for those curious.

For anyone following along on my long list of posts related to my booth improvements, much of it has all been towards this goal. 70mm returning in style at the Paramount with a 2024 print of "The Searchers". First 70mm since 2019 (last season before the pandemic). 430 in attendance tonight.

According to our film programmer, who has seen plenty of 70mm both in our venue and in places that are supposed to do it proper. He immediately came to the booth after and said he had no idea 70mm at the Paramount could look that good, and suggested it was better presented than many of the LA screenings he has been to (though I didn't ask where). Then again he always sits at the top of the balcony, so his view is about the same as ours, lol.

1.85 plates came out great (relative to anything else we have in the booth to compare them too anyway), thanks to a lot of advice here in the forum on order of operations. Though now i've dug a hole, cause I made all our existing 35mm plates look like crap comparatively and i'm gonna hate 35 until I fix that. Redoing scope plates is next on the filing agenda, ours were filed way too wide.

Having seen "The Searchers" reels twice (once in testing and again tonight, can confirm we did not add any emulsion scratches with our setup that we detected from the first play through. Image was rock steady for the screening, even without the studio guides installed (product of a 2024 print no doubt). Both gate tension knobs clocked near 3:00. Will definitely be testing the studio guides we have available and try to avoid "trusting" there to be no film weave in the future.

I don't intend to claim we are without room for improvement by any stretch. But having seen where it started from when I was hired, things have made massive leaps presentationally. Have a correct soundhead hanger that will let us finish aligning one of our lamp houses the final nudge. Got semi-approval to redesign the exhaust backdraft problem. Need some better house reels, and there are probably a myriad of small improvements and continued investigations we can do to be better stewards of the prints outside the picture area. But on screen it's looking great!

[James Biggins]

All's Well... etc

[Ryan Gallagher]

Another example is that some models of 70mm traps have a metal bar that protrudes horizontally just below the framing window at the pivot point of the gate bands intended to help the film lay flat on the trap for the projectionist when threading. Do your gates have that? If so that needs to go away!

Circling back to this. I believe one out of two of our traps have that bar. This little guy with the two screws?

[Brad Miller]

That's the bar. Make sure when you go to unscrew those two screws you have a good fitting screwdriver and are pressing downward on them firmly as you "crack" them to free-spin. That metal on those screws used in the traps is VERY easy to have a screwdriver slip and deform the head into a sharp point. Remove the plate and tuck away in your parts cabinet inside a small ziploc bag with the two screws. If you don't have any ziploc bags available, you could put the two screws back into the trap, but make sure they are screwed down in there nice and snug so they don't wiggle loose over time and end up becoming a point of scratching should they start working their way out. (I've seen this happen on many systems where the screws that hold the aperture plate guides were not firmly tightened and worked their way loose during a show after cleaning or servicing.)

[Ryan Gallagher]

That's the bar. Make sure when you go to unscrew those two screws you have a good fitting screwdriver and are pressing downward on them firmly as you "crack" them to free-spin. That metal on those screws used in the traps is VERY easy to have a screwdriver slip and deform the head into a sharp point. Remove the plate and tuck away in your parts cabinet inside a small ziploc bag with the two screws. If you don't have any ziploc bags available, you could put the two screws back into the trap, but make sure they are screwed down in there nice and snug so they don't wiggle loose over time and end up becoming a point of scratching should they start working their way out. (I've seen this happen on many systems where the screws that hold the aperture plate guides were not firmly tightened and worked their way loose during a show after cleaning or servicing.)

Thanks for confirming, plate and screws will be gone tomorrow.

Our conundrum with the studio guides not being installed came to a head today testing our Mag print of Street of Fire. At least one projector definitely needed them for that print, a dizzying side to side occasional oscillating weave was calmed down after guides put back on and a few passes at adjusting. Same print is fine on the other project without guides, so probably something else to track down on No2 Projector in due time. Having all guides back on is the goal, but our other two are suspect or at least need to be cleaned badly. The two installed were new in baggie spares.

We also have a slight background crackle in the audio channels on the No1 projector via the CP200, but it took a back seat to stabilizing picture today. No2 just has the expected hissy noise floor. I expect deoxit at both ends of the terminating cables is the first thing to try. Definitely not in the CP200 itself. (Edit, I say that, but swapping No1 and No2 at the CP200 would be the way to know for sure).

We were gonna call it and play the blu-ray tomorrow if couldn't solve the horizontal stability problem today.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Without a 2.20 print/loop/trailer that goes full width in the right contrast way, it may be hard to visually check we have gotten rid of the slight shutter ghost on the extreme edge.

I do have some black leader. Maybe framing it with the clear frame-line intentionally half out would give me something to observe the effect on.

[Brad Miller]

Your number 2 projector has something out of alignment in the gate/trap causing it to pull slightly to one side. It all works in conjunction with each other and it doesn't take much. Remember that Streets of Fire mag print is acetate so there will be some amount of shrinkage which will exaggerate the issue. One bit of warning though, you will likely have to dismount the lens collar which I (attempted to) explain earlier about how tricky it is to get it into proper alignment if disturbed. The odds of you making it worse are high, so definitely don't even consider messing with it until you know you have a large chunk of time to get someone very JJ-experienced in to resolve it should your attempt not go well. In the meantime it's probably best to avoid mag bookings.

There are lots of places where a background crackle can happen in mag from the connections in the penthouse to a few places in the CP200. Be prepared to be patient and systematically test and rule out everything one by one. Typically those sort of things aren't quickly found, but maybe you will get lucky.

Email me directly off-site. I should have a loop that you can use to test that left edge smearing.