Kinoton Lamphouse Wiring Help

[David Ferguson]

I currently use a UHP bulb with my Kinoton projector, but was fine for checking everyone works as it should, but now I'm wanting to upgrade to xenon with the original lamphouse, but I need some help figuring out the wiring of it. The seller I got the projector and lamphouse from said that the lamphouse "might need a bit of rewiring" and he was right, as so far I've found that both door switches, and the airflow switches had been disabled (door switches had a bridge wired over them, and airflow sensor was unconnected), so I've put them back in as shown in the wiring diagram in the manual.

The lamphouse has a relay board towards the back, and off of this are currently unconnected, and I'm not sure where they are supposed to go. They're blue and white (see attached picture), and go to the normally open contacts of one of the relays. The wiring diagram I have in the manual seems to be more of an overview than a proper schematic, and is possibly for a different revision of lamphouse as although it does show a relay, the pin numbers don't match up with what I'm expecting. Anyone know where these blue and white wires should be connected?

A second question I have is that the wiring diagram shows terminal block connectors 40, 20 and 60 for earth, neutral and live; 122 and 122A for the rectifier contactor, and then 60A and 60B for the start trigger from the projector. My lamphouse connector block doesn't have ones marked 60A or 60B, and instead has 10, 11, 21 and 108 and 108A. Any idea which of these I should be using? I don't even need the projector start signal, I'm fine with it being always on.

And lastly, the wiring diagram also shows a temperature sensor/switch SK6, but I am not seeing any such sensor in mine. Where should I be looking for it? Or was this an optional feature?

I've attached the wiring diagram from the manual, and also a picture of the inside of my lamphouse that shows the relay board, white and blue cut wires, and the connector block. I'm okay with electronics and fine with a soldering iron, but I want to be very cautious here because of the high current for the bulb, and the high voltage for the igniter. And I also don't want to damage the brand new bulb I've just bought! Thanks for any help.

[David Ferguson]

I got a bit further with it today, tracing out more wires and I think most of it makes sense to me now. I tried powering it on (just the lamphouse, no bulb yet - that'll be tomorrow's job!), and the fans start up and contactor relay switches when it's supposed to. So maybe 60A and 60B aren't needed here - this did come from a studio rather than a cinema so it's possible it had a non standard setup.

I'm still not sure what the cut blue and white wires are for, or where the temperature switch is (if it is installed in this lamphouse), but maybe I'll get lucky and it'll work anyway.

[Steve Guttag]

That is probably from the older "705" series of lamphouses (pre-"E" projectors or even "D" projectors).

10, 11 Can be used as an external Emergency Ignite Button

21 connects to 20 when the lamp is lit.
122, 122A is the rectifier switch leg (they short when the projector wants the lamp on) via 122 in the projector. They open if any of the safeties ope (door or air flow).
40 = Earth/Ground
60 = Line
20 = Neutral in 230V countries and the "other line" in 120V countries for a 208-240 power. I don't know of any instance where the Blue wires are not "Neutral" wires.
108, 108A, I believe, could provide a sound mute function during ignition or something. I've never personally used it.

It is not uncommon for people to modify Kinoton lamp wiring (and some do projector wiring too) in order to either simplify or out-think Kinoton's ridiculous theory of striking the lamp when the motor is running and having it off when the motor isn't. I guess it works for platter systems but for changeover systems, we always want to be able to strike the lamp ahead of time and on screenings, leave them lit for the duration.

60A/60B are essential to both running the fans (all) as well as the hour meter. As such, the 60/60B loop tends to run in parallel (but never touching) the 122/122A loop, which is just for turning the rectifier on/off. The older lamphouses, like yours had a sneaky way of knowing the lamp was lit but putting a switch in the coil of the igniter...its that red thing stuck into the middle of the coil. When current flows, the switch pulls in and it knows that the lamp is lit. Such was not the case on later lamphouses (I guess that was too clever and foolproof). Screen Shot 2021-03-22 at 9.19.40 PM.png

[David Ferguson]

Thanks Steve, that's exactly the info I was wanting, and that schematic is just what I needed! Just to confirm, I assume that switches "a1, a2, a3" are the contacts of Relay A?

Just for interest, this lamphouse is for my EC, but I know it's an early model of EC which would explain the older lamphouse.

[Steve Guttag]

Yes, a1, a2 and a3 would refer to three sets of contact for relay "Re A."

[David Ferguson]

Thanks Steve, I've now managed to get the lamphouse working (I had to replace the reed switch inside the coil, so thanks for the tip on that!).

My next issue is that my rectifier (which is a large transformer made by Transformers and Rectifiers Ltd) seems to only give out a constant 65A - no matter what the knob on the front is set to! I've phoned the manufacturer but they don't have any information on equipment this old (they now only work on transformers in the megawatt and above range!). Anyone have an idea on what might be causing this? I don't really know how the rectifier works, or what I should be looking for, so any help is appreciated!

[Gordon McLeod]

If memory serves (only one of those came across the pond) it is a magnetic amplifier/saturable core reactor based control and the rheostat controls the transfer between te primary and the secondary coils of the transformer by saturating the core. I suspect the rheostat or the control coil(s) or blocking diodes is open

[David Ferguson]

Thanks for that info Gordon, I have a couple of pictures of it if that might help you confirm we're talking about the same thing here.

I spoke to a friend and showed him the pics, and he thinks it could be a adjustable core transformer (I've done a little reading, but am not quite sure what the difference between that and a saturable core reactor are). And that's interesting because the current control knob on the front only turns about 3/4 of a turn total, which would imply that it has been set at 60A to avoid accidental adjustment. There are some nuts I'm going to look at to see if those are what's setting it in place.

[Gordon McLeod]

The know if you noticed moves a shunt in the transformer core to change the coupling and as such the ratio. Check and see if it is jamming on something

[Pete Naples]

That's a T&R 123/B rectifier, very common here.

The knob should move a lot more than 3/4 of a turn, usually tey need two hands to turn.
Chances are someone has overtightened the core colts to reduce hum. The mechnism also benefits from cleaning a smear of high melting point grease.

[David Ferguson]

Hi Pete, thanks for that info. I've had another go at mine, and I certainly need more than two hands - more like two hands and a spanner! However it is turning, and the core is moving. I guess it has probably been sitting for 30+ years without being adjusted, and it just very stiff now - the grease I added helped slightly but not too much. But I think I can probably now adjust it as much as I need, and then hope I never have to do it again!

Also I don't suppose you know what the output current range of these (roughly) is?

[David Ferguson]

I managed to adjust it to what I needed, and I sure hope I never have to do it again! It was just really stiff, so thanks for all the advice.

Onto my next question (and I must apologise as I'm rather off topic of "kinoton lamphouse wiring", and this thread has turned into "help David with his projector"), I did the lamphouse alignment as best I could - using a laser pointer and the instructions for the Align-O-Tron (as sadly I don't have an Align-O-Tron and the link to purchase them seems dead). The only alignment I didn't do was the horizontal lamp position as that needed the bulb to be on, and the arc magnet position as I don't have the equipment (welding mask) to do that.

I thought I had done the alignment okay, however upon igniting the bulb and opening the douser, I don't get the expected pattern as seen in this guide on the screen. I've attached an image of what I do get, both with and without a lens installed. I can turn the bulb horizontal position screw all the way from one way to the other, but it doesn't seem to make any difference as to what I get on the screen.

Any advice on what I should be doing next? Having never done an alignment before it's more than possible I've done it hopelessly wrong, but I'm also not sure of the next troubleshooting steps. I'm eager to learn, though!

[David Ferguson]

I can turn the bulb horizontal position screw all the way from one way to the other, but it doesn't seem to make any difference as to what I get on the screen.

This should have been the big clue to me - the spring for adjusting the horizontal position was stuck, and now it's unstuck it works perfectly, and I can get a great image on screen.

Many thanks to Pete, Gordon and Steve - your help and input was really appreciated, and without it I doubt I'd have got it working.

[Pete Naples]

The output range depends if it's a B1, B2 or B3 variant.

B3 was by far the most common, I can't remember the range offhand, I looked after them in various cinemas running between 700w and 2000w lamps. So they were happy between 50 and 75A for sure. I'm almost certain the top whack from a B2 was 100A.
They're good rectifiers, OCV can be too low for many lamphouses to auto strike. I used to fit a booster circuit, on some ignitors I changed the sensing diode.

One weakness is the cooling fan, originals often sieze.
Also the original design needs a modification. I used to a fit a Vee shaped folded aluminium plate above the fan, to duct the air up and out of the vents. Natively it just circulates and doesn't really go anywhere so they can get a bit hot.

Diodeds and capacitors are readily available from RS if you ever need them. It woild be worth checking the ripple current as that rectifier is going to be 50 years old at least. Who knows when the caps were last changed?

Was it ex Savalas in Glasgow?

[Tony Bandiera Jr]

This should have been the big clue to me - the spring for adjusting the horizontal position was stuck, and now it's unstuck it works perfectly, and I can get a great image on screen.

Many thanks to Pete, Gordon and Steve - your help and input was really appreciated, and without it I doubt I'd have got it working.

That reminded me of the old Christie H series lamphouse I used to have for my "portable" projector setup. I used it with a 4k lamp for some outdoor shows.

The first two shows I did with it I had the same issue, caused by the stupid C-clip falling off on the adjuster shaft. (It held a thrust washer against a guide block to allow the lamp holders to slide fore and aft.)

After that second show I got pissed off and finally drilled a small hole in the shaft and used a tiny cotter pin and washer to replace that clip. Never had any more issues with it after that.

When I worked as a service tech, I never seemed to have that issue at any of my theatres with that lamphouse. I think the reason it was such a big deal in my setup was it getting bounced around when moving from one gig to the next.