Kidnapped by a parking barrier

[Frank Cox]

I was in the city today and parked in a paid parking lot at $1 for a half hour.

They have a really fancy parking system there where they automatically scan your license plate on the way in and you pay at a machine beside the front door on the way out, then it lets you out when you drive up to the exit gate. Fully automated setup -- I've parked there before and it's pretty slick when it works.

It apparently quit working today. I suspect that, like a lot of other things, it wasn't built to handle a Saskatchewan winter.

When I went to leave two hours later there was a dozen cars lined up in the exit lane and the guy at the front of the line apparently couldn't get the gate to open. After some time it eventually opened but closed again right behind him and this continued to happen.

I sat in the exit line for that parking lot for 45 minutes before we eventually got to the front of the line.

They had a help line number posted so I phoned it three separate times during the 45 minutes. Got told to leave a message the first and last time and got to talk to someone the second time I called.

On my messages and when I talked to that person I told her that they need to open that gate and leave it open if it's malfunctioning like this. No response to my messages (of course) and the person I talked to said that she can't do that but she will pass the message on to someone else.

So no action resulted from those calls.

When I got to the front of the line (45 minutes later) to my lack of surprise the gate didn't open. There's a button on the kiosk there saying "press for help" so I did that and a guy with a heavy accent answered on a speaker and asked what the problem is. I told him and he then rang up a display on the screen that said I have to pay another $1 for the time I had spent waiting in this line. I said that's not going to happen. He said "OK" and the gate opened and let us out. It closed again right behind me and I know there was another dozen cars lined up again.

So 45 minutes spent on driving out of the parking lot that should have taken one minute, tops.

When I got back I hunted up a contact us form on their website and wrote that I have spent $4 on this parking fiasco today and now I want my $4 back.

I don't imagine that I'll hear anything back or see my $4 again either, but if this continues someone might rip that barricade right off of the post. I was almost ready to do that myself today, frankly.

I could have driven back to Melville in the time that I spent sitting in their parking lot.

[Harold Hallikainen]

This gets into the design of failure modes. What should a system do when something goes wrong? Here, it does seem like they could have just had the system fail to "gate open." But, if it's based on license plate reading, people could just obscure their license plate as they leave the lot. Having remote human supervision, which they have, seems reasonable, but I wonder why it took 45 minutes to clear the line of cars.

I'm glad you eventually escaped the parking lot!

[Frank Cox]

I think that if the gate was left open most people would pay anyway, either because they wouldn't realize that the gate was open until they got to it (after they paid) or because they are the sort that would pay anyway.

The loss from a few "escapees" will be far less than the loss of good will and the genuine anger generated when they do it this way. I heard some shouting going on in some of the other vehicles in line while I was waiting. Again, I'm mildly surprised that nobody ripped the barricade down.

I wonder if they would be liable for some kind of unlawful confinement. After all, everyone in line had paid to leave and were being prevented from doing so.

Oh, and if it can't read your license plate for any reason it stops you on the way in and you have to take a printed ticket out of a machine. You show that ticket to the machine that takes your money and then again at the gate when you leave.

Again, it really is a pretty slick system. But only when it works.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Interesting! I wonder what the advantage of doing the license plate scan is over just using a printed ticket. Of course, license plate scans can be used to identify the owner of the vehicle, but I don't know that they need to do that for parking. In Denver CO, they have congestion priced toll lanes on the freeways. They use RF transponders to charge the users. But, if you don't have a transponder, they do a license plate scan and send a bill at a somewhat higher price.

[Martin McCaffery]

"

I don't imagine that I'll hear anything back or see my $4 again either, but if this continues someone might rip that barricade right off of the post. I was almost ready to do that myself today, frankly."

Back around 1979 or so I was trapped in a Metro parking lot in New Carrollton, MD (suburban DC for those not familiar) with lots of cranky rush hour people. We were all paid up but the barricade was stuck and there was no attendant. It just so happened I had my tool box and socket wrench set. The crossbar was held on by three simple bolts, which I simply removed. I put the crossbar by the side, and we all left.
I'm assuming the statute of limitations has run out by now

[Randy Stankey]

I wonder what the advantage of doing the license plate scan is over just using a printed ticket.

The advantage is "technology." More advanced, complex technology is ALWAYS better, even when it isn't.
People see some whiz-bang technological solution and gravitate toward it, even when they don't understand it and they don't understand the problem they are trying to solve in the first place.

They could just hire a guy to collect money. They don't need anything else. No gates. No computers. No cash registers.
No, nothing. Just put a guy in a little shack and give him a cash box so that he can collect a two dollars from every car that drives by. What's it going to cost? Minimum wage? $14.00/hr?

What did this computerized system that scans license plates cost? Tens of thousands? A hundred thousand? What does it cost per year to maintain and repair? How much money do you collect? If the money you collect doesn't pay for upkeep on the system, the overhead of maintaining a parking garage and the people to staff it, you're losing money!

You have to plan for when technology breaks down and stops working...not IF...WHEN! In using any form of technology to solve a problem you MUST assume that there is a 100% chance that it WILL break down and you must figure that cost into your calculations. You must figure in the repair cost. You must figure in the cost of lost business. You must figure in what will happen to people trying to use your machines, how to help those people and how to remedy any damage or injury to customers and their property.

You must think this out before you ever spend dime-one! You must consider other solutions and whether they can meet your needs. If your solution doesn't pass the test of logic, you shouldn't use it.

If that computerized parking gate cost only $10,000, you could have paid somebody minimum wage to stand there and collect money for a whole month and still break even. In downtown Erie, many of the parking garages don't charge from 10:00 pm. to 6:00 a.m. That would extend your break-even period by a third. Regardless, such an attendant, collecting a dollar from every car, would only have to handle fourteen cars per hour...one car approximately every four minutes.

What was wrong with the old, punched ticket parking system? NOTHING! It was easy, it worked well, it made money and maintenance costs were manageable.

But, instead, we have a bunch of chuckleheads who get all starry eyed when they see stuff done on "kum-PYOOOO-turz!"

[Frank Cox]

Another factor that I mentioned above is our climate.

The temperature here ranges from about -50 degrees up to about +40 degrees (centigrade), depending on the time of year. A lot of stuff that's supposedly intended for outdoor use just doesn't work well here.

[Leo Enticknap]

They have a system like this at the economy parking structure at LAX, where we parked while we were away in England visiting relatives over Christmas. I booked and paid for the spot several months earlier, and was emailed a PDF with a QR code on it, with instructions to scan it at the entrance gate if it didn't automatically let me in or out. In the event, the system worked flawlessly in both directions, displaying my name and registration number on the display at the barrier to confirm that it had identified my car successfully. I hope that they have a system in place for effective human intervention in cases where that doesn't happen, which obviously wasn't the case with Frank's experience.

I was quite impressed a few months back, when I accidentally lost the paper ticket I took from the machine on the way in to a parking structure. When I pushed "Lost ticket" on the pay machine, the display said "Wait for attendant." A few seconds later, an armed security guy appeared, and asked to see my driver's license and registration. When I asked him why, he explained that most people who push "Lost ticket" are trying to exit the structure in a vehicle that they have just stolen, hence him verifying that I am in legitimate possession of the car before allowing me to buy the full day ticket and exit.

[Randy Stankey]

Another factor that I mentioned above is our climate.

One of the problems with switching to LED traffic lights is that, in the winter, the fixtures freeze up and get covered in snow so that drivers can't see the lights.

The solution? Easy! Put an incandescent lamp in the yellow light. The filament will generate just enough heat to keep things warm enough that snow won't build up.

In extra cold climates, they can put a wirewound, ceramic resister behind the green LED and wire it in parallel. That will generate even more heat so that, on all but the coldest days, the fixture will stay warm enough to melt the snow.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I think it must have been about 15 years back when we just finished a job at a transmission site and our cars were being held hostage by the automatic barrier at the site. We could find nobody answering the phone. Luckily, the guy I've been there with had a car full of tools, so we disassembled the barrier, freed our cars from the hostage situation and reattached the barrier...

I once threatened to do the same over the intercom after their IT system crapped out and another barrier was holding me and my car hostage at some random parking garage.

[Frank Cox]

One of the problems with switching to LED traffic lights is that, in the winter, the fixtures freeze up and get covered in snow so that drivers can't see the lights.

Remember the old gumball machine style rotating emergency lights on police cars? When it gets really cold they tended to freeze up and not rotate. It used to be common to see a police officer switch on his emergency lights and then crank the window down to bang on the light rack to make them start rotating.

[Randy Stankey]

Oh, yeah! The PA State Police used to have them. I remember riding in the car and calling out "Gumball!" when we saw one.

Getting stuck in the cold? Never saw it but I don't doubt it. Some genius, back at the shop, must have sprayed WD-40 on it during the summer and thought, "Look how good they work, now!" Then, along comes winter and the stuff turns to the consistency of glue.

Yeah! Look how good they work, NOW!

[Jim Cassedy]

I had a good laugh when you mentioned that they had the chutzpah to ask
for an additional $1 for the time you spent trapped in the garage due to their
faulty system. Geez!

About a decade ago, I worked for a while for a part of 'the phone company' that
handled all the special copper & fiber circuits used by TV & radio stations to carry
remote broadcasts from various locations. Me & my buddy were in a telco truck
exiting a public parking garage which issued a thin plastic card with a mag
stripe on it when you entered- - and that you needed to exit the garage after you
paid your fare at a machine before you went back to your vehicle. I'm guessing
it recorded your payment and a time-stamp on the magnetic stripe.

But as we were leaving, my co-worker managed to somehow accidentally insert
his Telco ID card into the parking garage gate-thingy. It grabbed and swallowed
his ID card, but of course wouldn't open the gate and let us out until he found the
real parking payment card, as people backed up and started honking behind us.

I hadn't driven in to work myself that day, so once we got outta the garage,he
dropped me off somewhere downtown, so I could catch a bus home, but when
he got back to our office location, he now found that he could not get IN to the
company garage, or into our (secure) building- - because he didn't have his
company ID card, which had been 'eaten' by the gate machine. It was well
after normal business hours, so there was no security guard or anyone else
to let him in at that time. He called my cell, and I got off the bus so he could
pick me up on some random street corner and drive back to company HQ so
I could use MY credentials to return the company truck, and get his car keys
out of his office so he could get his personal vehicle out of the company lot.

He was nice enough to drive me all the way back to my house though. - - He
had called the trouble number posted in the public garage, and they told him
he could come & get is ID in the morning when they emptied their machine.
But whatta predicament! First he couldn't get OUT of one garage- - and then
couldn't get IN to another . . . all because of some stupid card kerfuffle!

[Harold Hallikainen]

On just paying someone to collect parking fees, it appears that a lot of people now walk around with no cash. I help run an event wit a 10 dollar admission. We have a qr code so people can pay with Zelle.

[Randy Stankey]

Why couldn't the person collecting parking fees be issued a handheld, portable credit card terminal?
They would, of course, wear a uniform and have an ID badge that says they are employed by the parking authority.

In-N-Out Burgers does it that way at their drive throughs. Why can't the parking authority?

Regardless of what technology is used or isn't used, Occam's Razor still applies. The simplest solution is usually the best solution.