Sync/Changeover cues in MANK -- new David Fincher film.

[Paul H. Rayton]

I had hoped to be able to (somehow) capture an image of the "cue marks" in Mank, and now someone has done it for me. It's on a Facebook group page ("Eyesofageneration.com") that's primarily about old television equipment and the like, but this got posted there, because it's "retro", I suppose. Actually, station operators did use visual cues at local TV stations, as well, back in the day. Here's a link to an 18-second clip that shows a set of cues as the scene approaches a fade-out: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1425...1691061364509/

And these are 2 frame grabs off a monitor from their posted sequence, including one sloppy "cue" with a double-scribe, at the end of the fade-out:

[Mitchell Dvoskin]

Again, the problem with those scribed cue marks is that they are round. While they would have been round on the film print, when actually projected though an anamorphic CinemaScope lens they would become oval shaped on the screen.

[Leo Enticknap]

Leo...the VAST majority of changeover systems I worked in mono theatres used just an exciter lamp changeover so there was no tick/pop to the changeover as no electronics were involved.

I have never encountered such a system. Every changeover system I've ever had anything to do with has both exciters powered continuously, and the audio source change done in the processor. And the only times I haven't heard even a slight noise caused by the changeover is if it happened during a continuously loud scene that covered it.

“We made the soundtrack pop like it does when you do a reel changeover. It’s one of the most comforting sounds in my life.

If Steve is right in that typical 1940s theaters audio systems changed the source between projectors by switching the exciter lamp power, that's another detail they got wrong.

[Ed Gordon]

Wide screen films were produced with spherical lenses decades before the introduction of Cinemascope done with anamorphic lenses. Here is a list::

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...e_film_formats

Up next: Why do animated characters only have three fingers?

[Mitchell Dvoskin]

Thank you Ed, the chart in your link is very thorough. However Mank presented in 2.35, which after 1940 until 1970 was almost exclusively the aspect ratio for anamorphic 35mm CinemaScope.

Not in the chart was spherical 2.0 which was Universal’s preferred spherical wide screen aspect ratio in the 1950’s. But Mank on a tv with no overscan is too wide for that to be the intended aspect ratio.

As to why animated characters only have 3 fingers, I can’t answer that, but years ago Ray Harryhausen did a a book signing at The Landmark Loews Jersey after which they ran It Came From Beneath The Sea. In the discussion afterwards Harryhausen was asked why the giant octopus only had 6 tentacles, and without missing a beat he answered “budget cuts”.

[Terry Monohan]

Does anyone know if the new Netflik movie Mank is showing in any of the Netflik owned or leased movie theatres and did they make a 35mm film version?

I watched a friend viewing the movie on a large home theatre screen and It looked very dark and gray to me?

They needed to put some film line scratch marks in at times. The whole movie from the small segment I saw looked like video to me not film.

Will watch this weekend on our curved screen in mono sound. Will turn on the Yamaha amp mono to stereo phase knob and hear what happens! I love the rear ch echo my amp gives out just like sitting in the loge area of a old downtown movie palace. Use this setting on many of my mono 16mm films.

I know this movie was filmed on video as It did look very crisp.

[Paul Finn]

As Steve G. indicated, some form of exciter lamp sound changeover system was common before cinema processors came along and handled sound changeovers. Both machine's exciter lamps were powered through a voltage dropping resistor. Normally the lamps were at very reduced brightness and the resistors had relay or switch contacts across them. The contacts shorted the resistor on the operating projector exciter lamp, allowing full brightness, while the incoming projector exciter lamp was very dim until its resistor was shorted on changeover. The outgoing projector exciter lamp resistor short was released on changeover, placing the resistor back into the circuit, and reducing the lamp to the dim standby status. The photocell sound pickups were very sensitive to having the correct light level so the machines with dim exciter lamps had no sound output. The dim lamp came up smoothly to full brightness when its resistor was shorted without the cold filament inrush/thump of current as if the lamp had been completely out. This system was mainly in use when the exciter lamps had large heavy filaments and probably were powered with AC low voltage high current supplies. The heavy filaments did not transfer the AC hum to the sound system. There were variations on these systems between manufacturers, but most operated on the same principles.

Paul Finn

[Marcel Birgelen]

Thank you Ed, the chart in your link is very thorough. However Mank presented in 2.35, which after 1940 until 1970 was almost exclusively the aspect ratio for anamorphic 35mm CinemaScope.

Not in the chart was spherical 2.0 which was Universal’s preferred spherical wide screen aspect ratio in the 1950’s. But Mank on a tv with no overscan is too wide for that to be the intended aspect ratio.

Well, I don't know how that second screen shot was obtained (the one with the sloppy double scribed cue), but that one has an aspect ratio of exactly 2.0 .

Also, IMDB mentions an aspect ratio of 2.20...

[Paul H. Rayton]

That screenshot (of the cues) was captured by using the snipping tool of Windows 7. The captured area was selected by using the tool's pointer, creating a box around the area one wishes to capture. I captured the full frame (as near as I could tell) but since the entire screen is dark at that point, the exact edge of the image was impossible to spot. Plus, the source was, of course, that 18-second clip (previously linked), and I have no idea who originally captured that, nor how accurate they were in including the entire screen at that time. So it's risky to be extrapolating assumed precise aspect ratio(s) from the captured image(s), since both are a bit on the approximate side, certainly not done with appropriate raster test charts, etc.

[Ed Gordon]

Here are two screen shots to compare. Mank looks to be 2.20 as Marcel mentioned. The second screen shot is from The Robe (Bluray). However, as Paul pointed out, "it's risky to be extrapolating assumed precise aspect ratio(s) from the captured image(s), since both are a bit on the approximate side, certainly not done with appropriate raster test charts, etc.".

PS: Both images are exactly 1920 pixels by 1080 pixels

Mank screen shot.jpg
The Robe Screen shot.jpg

[Martin McCaffery]

Yes, Mank is 2.20 in a flat container. The hard drive contains a framing chart.

[Mitchell Dvoskin]

I will bow to Martin on the correct aspect ratio.

[Martin McCaffery]

Ok, surprised everyone missed it. The first "changeover cue" comes exactly as someone is talking about hitting a cue (wasn't taking notes on the exact wording). Definitely a wink and nod to the projectionists in the audience. At least they weren't talking about cigarette burns.

[Marcel Birgelen]

cigarette-burns.jpg

[Harold Hallikainen]

How does the "high dynamic range" of film compare to that of digital cinema or HDR digital cinema?