Covid testing trauma

[Jim Cassedy]

>> WARNING- RANT AHEAD! <<

I am scheduled to go out of town for about 10 days next week to work at a big show/event. I was just informed by folks I'll be working for that I will need to be fully vaccinated (no problem) and COVID tested and send them the results 24hrs before my departure date - - or they will cancel my airline tickets. While this sounded like a reasonable, although somewhat inconvenient request, in the end, it turned into a big-friggin' pain in the ass for me.

Being self-employed, I do not carry any health insurance. But, being a military veteran, I have excellent coverage through the local VA Hospital, and, quite frankly, they have always taken very good care of me. I have no complaints about the them or the care I've gotten over the years. I wouldn't be alive right now if it wasn't for them.

> BUT: The VA will not test me, because, in accordance with current CDC guidelines, 1) I'm not actually sick, 2) I can't prove that I've been in contact with a COVID infected person, 3) I am not flying to a foreign country or region that requires testing before entry, 4) Although I'm being tested as a condition for work, my occupation, according to CDC guidelines, does not qualify me as eligible to be tested. "Occupational Testing" is limited more or less to people working in health care & care-giving facilities, public safety, and some governmental jobs.

> So, I went online to a website that listed public and private COVID testing facilities in my area to try and find some place other than the VA that would test me. While there are many agencies listed, I came to find out that a lot of the info on the websites I checked was either flat out wrong or outdated, despite the fact that the main website I was looking at claimed it was updated two days ago. Several of those testing sites had closed or were not answering phones, and a couple of them I was able to reach actually told me "I needed to go to the VA" (Doh!)

> So, I spent the rest of the afternoon going to several local chain-store-pharmacies and was more or less told the same thing; That I did not qualify for a COVID test under CDC guidelines, and that my employers request for testing before travel was unnecessary, since I was flying domestically and for the other reasons I stated earlier. They also said that when an employer requires employee testing, than it's usually customary for the employer to pay for the services and use one of several private labs that are specifically set up for that purpose Two places flat-out refused to test me. And apparently they have that (optional) right, under current CDC guidelines since I don't meet their testing criteria. I'm told the testing restrictions are an effort to 'conserve testing resources" and keep labs from being overloaded with unnecessary tests. I did finally find a couple of pharmacies that agreed to test me, but at a cost of from $120-$160, since, according to them, what I was getting amounted to an unnecessary "vanity test" which was not covered by insurance, nor could they recover costs from the VA, who had already turned me down. Being 'self employed' also put me into a testing Twilight Zone, since, at the moment, I'm not actually employed by the people requesting the test, and they won't employ me unless I get tested. (Can you say "Catch 22? ")

> After an entire afternoon of searching, I finally found a "no questions asked" 'Community Clinic' downtown where I was able to schedule a test for before I leave. I'm going to have to go down there and stand in line for an hour or more with a bunch of drunks and drug addicts who are being treated and/or tested for God-knows-what other diseases, and where I've probably got a good chance of catching 'something' during my time there and/or having my pockets picked - - but at least I'll be COVID tested.

- - and if I don't shower or shave for a couple of days before going down there for my test, there's a good chance they won't try & charge me anything.

< End Of Rant>

FINAL WORDS:
I find it somewhat ironic and frustrating that here in San Francisco, the ultra-liberal/progressive center of the universe where they hand out free hypodermic needles, condoms, pot, ( and are actually considering distributing LSD) - - that I couldn't even get a friggin' COVID test.

[Mark Ogden]

Honestly, that's pretty weak on the part of your prospective employer, especially if it's truly a "big show/event" as you say. It should be upon THEM to make arrangements and pay for COVID testing.

Last month I did a big event for ESPN in lower Manhattan. They set-up on ON-SITE testing facility where, when you went in to pick up your credentials, you got a swab test that was processed immediately. It was the same thing for the NBA Draft at the Barclay Center a few weeks later, a massive on-site testing facility. That's really what true "big event" producers are doing, they are taking it upon themselves to clear the crew. That's the pro way to go.

[Jim Cassedy]

Hi Mark- Trust me- - it is a major event. And they will have on-site testing available. The problem is they are insisting on everyone getting tested BEFORE they arrive, and, as I said, they will cancel my airline arrangements ( and I assume my lodging and work assignments) if I don't e-mail them results of my test at least 24hrs before I'm scheduled to flyouttahere. I just didn't think it was going to be such a hassle to get a simple test. I'm also a bit annoyed, I guess, that this came about as almost a last minute afterthought. It wasn't specified in the original contract I agreed to, which was quite specific about vaccinations, masks, etc, all of which I have no problem complying with. The additional testing requirement wouldn't have made me consider backing out of my work agreement, it's just that I didn't realize that complying with it was going to be such a pain-in-the-ass.

[Leo Enticknap]

Ask them if you can expense the cost of a commercial test?

I went through a similar hassle going to Hawaii last month to service a theater. The state requires you to obtain a negative test result, from a sample taken within 72 hours of the scheduled departure time of your flight that leaves the mainland, which has to be done by a vendor approved by the state. I managed to find several vendors close to where I live that offered reasonably priced tests (as in, $30-40) that meet Hawaii's requirements, but none that guaranteed to produce the result within the required time window. In the end, I had to go to a place in Echo Park (70 miles from home and 50 from work) and pay $150. The cost was passed along to the customer, but I managed to combine the journey to get the test with a planned maintenance call at a post house nearby, so we didn't have to pass along those travel costs to the theater in Hawaii.

But if the festival hiring you is insisting on this test in this timescale, it seems to me entirely reasonable that they should cover the cost of you getting a pricey, but low hassle test. It can't hurt to ask.

[Mark Ogden]

Trust me- - it is a major event.

I'm sure it is, but the point is, THEY should make the arrangements. They should be the ones to get you a reservation number at a LabCorp or a Quest Diagnostics location so that the results go right to the event COVID coordinator.

I don't know how much this event means to you, but is sounds pretty 1/2 assed to me. if it were me who was asked to do all this, I would have replied with a firm "delete my contact".

[Leo Enticknap]

If it's a major event, it should have a major enough budget to do the right thing by the staff working it.

[Marcel Birgelen]

So, the airline doesn't require a recent COVID-19 test for an inland flight, but the event does require one before you leave?

Makes total sense...

It's also interesting how testing differs between countries: Over here there are COVID test centers that test everybody, as long as you pay... shouldn't that be the American way? :P

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

>> WARNING- RANT AHEAD! <<

I am scheduled to go out of town for about 10 days next week to work at a big show/event. I was just informed by folks I'll be working for that I will need to be fully vaccinated (no problem) and COVID tested and send them the results 24hrs before my departure date - - or they will cancel my airline tickets. While this sounded like a reasonable, although somewhat inconvenient request, in the end, it turned into a big-friggin' pain in the ass for me.

Being self-employed, I do not carry any health insurance. But, being a military veteran, I have excellent coverage through the local VA Hospital, and, quite frankly, they have always taken very good care of me. I have no complaints about the them or the care I've gotten over the years. I wouldn't be alive right now if it wasn't for them.

> BUT: The VA will not test me, because, in accordance with current CDC guidelines, 1) I'm not actually sick, 2) I can't prove that I've been in contact with a COVID infected person, 3) I am not flying to a foreign country or region that requires testing before entry, 4) Although I'm being tested as a condition for work, my occupation, according to CDC guidelines, does not qualify me as eligible to be tested. "Occupational Testing" is limited more or less to people working in health care & care-giving facilities, public safety, and some governmental jobs.

> So, I went online to a website that listed public and private COVID testing facilities in my area to try and find some place other than the VA that would test me. While there are many agencies listed, I came to find out that a lot of the info on the websites I checked was either flat out wrong or outdated, despite the fact that the main website I was looking at claimed it was updated two days ago. Several of those testing sites had closed or were not answering phones, and a couple of them I was able to reach actually told me "I needed to go to the VA" (Doh!)

> So, I spent the rest of the afternoon going to several local chain-store-pharmacies and was more or less told the same thing; That I did not qualify for a COVID test under CDC guidelines, and that my employers request for testing before travel was unnecessary, since I was flying domestically and for the other reasons I stated earlier. They also said that when an employer requires employee testing, than it's usually customary for the employer to pay for the services and use one of several private labs that are specifically set up for that purpose Two places flat-out refused to test me. And apparently they have that (optional) right, under current CDC guidelines since I don't meet their testing criteria. I'm told the testing restrictions are an effort to 'conserve testing resources" and keep labs from being overloaded with unnecessary tests. I did finally find a couple of pharmacies that agreed to test me, but at a cost of from $120-$160, since, according to them, what I was getting amounted to an unnecessary "vanity test" which was not covered by insurance, nor could they recover costs from the VA, who had already turned me down. Being 'self employed' also put me into a testing Twilight Zone, since, at the moment, I'm not actually employed by the people requesting the test, and they won't employ me unless I get tested. (Can you say "Catch 22? ")

> After an entire afternoon of searching, I finally found a "no questions asked" 'Community Clinic' downtown where I was able to schedule a test for before I leave. I'm going to have to go down there and stand in line for an hour or more with a bunch of drunks and drug addicts who are being treated and/or tested for God-knows-what other diseases, and where I've probably got a good chance of catching 'something' during my time there and/or having my pockets picked - - but at least I'll be COVID tested.

- - and if I don't shower or shave for a couple of days before going down there for my test, there's a good chance they won't try & charge me anything.

< End Of Rant>

FINAL WORDS:
I find it somewhat ironic and frustrating that here in San Francisco, the ultra-liberal/progressive center of the universe where they hand out free hypodermic needles, condoms, pot, ( and are actually considering distributing LSD) - - that I couldn't even get a friggin' COVID test.

JIm, Around here there are still a number of COVID drive through centers where you can get tested and or get vaccinated. And soon round three of vaccination is coming up! I am pretty sure this round three is happening because all the COVIDIOTS that refuse to wear masks or get vaccinated.

[Steve Guttag]

The state requires you to obtain a negative test result, from a sample taken within 72 hours of the scheduled departure time of your flight that leaves the mainland, which has to be done by a vendor approved by the state.

This is getting out of hand. It should be (and it probably is) illegal for any state to refuse entry to a citizen unless they produce "papers." It violates due process whereby they have no probable cause that one may be infected. A state is not a business that can just make up rules...states have to follow constitutional restrictions on their powers. Hawaii is a state, connected to the continental-48 or not. They should no more have the power to require such testing before entry than any other state should be able to set up checkpoints and require all people crossing state lines in a car, bike or on foot should have to produce papers.

[Leo Enticknap]

This is getting out of hand. It should be (and it probably is) illegal for any state to refuse entry to a citizen unless they produce "papers." It violates due process whereby they have no probable cause that one may be infected.

Being infected in itself isn't a crime (presumably), so my guess would be that this isn't a Fifth Amendment probable cause issue. When the pandemic first started I read a lengthy article about this (sorry; can't find it now), which opined that refusing a citizen entry to travel from one state into another likely does violate the Interstate Commerce Clause. The debate surfaced because early in the pandemic, Rhode Island set up roadblocks at all the state lines, and forced anyone wishing to enter to quarantine for two weeks. They worked around the Constitutional restriction by saying that they weren't trying to stop anyone from entering the state; simply imposing a requirement on them if they chose to do so. This is what Hawaii is now doing. You can fly there without jumping through any of these testing hoops first: but if you do, you have to quarantine. What getting the test does is to exempt you from the quarantine requirement.

I'm slightly surprised that this has not been tested in the courts as yet, the argument being that the quarantine requirement has the same practical effect as an outright travel ban. Presumably Hawaii's defense against that claim would be that the testing requirement is not an unreasonable restriction on travel. But RI could not have made that claim for the few weeks that they operated the quarantine roadblocks, because there was no way to avoid the requirement (other than by making a U-turn at the checkpoint).

[Steve Guttag]

The quarantine also could be construed as a false imprisonment. Interstate Commerce shouldn't apply to a citizen's free travel, free association. The due-process is that they want to impose a restriction on a right without a due process...that is, it is incumbent upon the state to show probable cause that someone is either violating a law or endangering its citizens (bringing a potentially deadly pandemic type virus). It should shift the burden of proof upon the state/government, not the citizen to prove that they are okay.

I agree, that I'm surprised that this hasn't been tested (unless it is working its way through now by someone). I suspect, if it made it to the USSC, the state's requirements of proof of negative test would be found unconstitutional. It flies in the face (I guess literally) of innocent until proven guilty theory that the burden is on the entity that is claiming danger.

[Kenneth Wuepper]

Steve,
The accepted abbreviation for the Supreme Court of the United States has become "SCOTUS".

The President is "POTUS"

The Congress is "COTUS"

Perhaps all of these originated as texter's shortcuts.

KEN

[Barry Floyd]

My oldest son works tech for the festival and live music tour circuits. He spent 3 months on the road earlier this year for one tour, and each time they left out from base he was required to have a negative Covid test before he could board the bus. His tour paid for it all. He just got back from Chicago spending 21 days at Lollapalooza, and had the same requirements there. He just goes to the local Walgreens in our town and they take care of the rest.

[Mitchell Dvoskin]

This is getting out of hand. It should be (and it probably is) illegal for any state to refuse entry to a citizen unless they produce "papers." It violates due process whereby they have no probable cause that one may be infected. A state is not a business that can just make up rules...states have to follow constitutional restrictions on their powers. Hawaii is a state, connected to the continental-48 or not. They should no more have the power to require such testing before entry than any other state should be able to set up checkpoints and require all people crossing state lines in a car, bike or on foot should have to produce papers.

The quarantine also could be construed as a false imprisonment. Interstate Commerce shouldn't apply to a citizen's free travel, free association. The due-process is that they want to impose a restriction on a right without a due process...that is, it is incumbent upon the state to show probable cause that someone is either violating a law or endangering its citizens (bringing a potentially deadly pandemic type virus). It should shift the burden of proof upon the state/government, not the citizen to prove that they are okay.

Being selfish is NOT a constitutional right. If you take Steve's argument to it's logical conclusion, it should be illegal for any state to require "papers" to drive a car, or to make drunk driving illegal and/or put up checkpoints to prevent people from traveling unless the prove themselves not drunk, because while the potential is there, not every drunk driver will cause an accident. In fact, most do not. While the statistical evidence regarding how serious an illness Covid is, is not yet complete due to the nature of the various variants, the empirical evidence clearly shows that vaccination and mask work. Around last year around this time, NJ, NY, and CT would not let people from outside those neighboring states enter even by private car, as did Florida. The State Police enforced it. Those rules were actually challenged, and held up as legal by the Federal Courts, as was Florida's blocking drivers from the NY area. At this point, nobody is suggesting the preventing free association or travel, what they are saying is you can not do it on other people property or vehicles.

Imagine the world we would be living in today if our grandparents generation believed it was a "right" to endanger others. We would still have Polio with kids dying or spending there life in Iron Lungs. We would still have widespread smallpox, measles, rubella, chicken pox that at one time killed tens of thousands of people every year. Because the seasonal Flue is usually not fatal, far too many people do not get their yearly flue shots, causing the yearly variants that by now make it impossible to wipe out this disease.

The CDC does not need to prove anything to me personally. We live in a society, and these are people that we, as a society, determined have the knowledge and skill to evaluate the science and make the proper recommendations. Yes, their guidance changes as things change and/or more is learned. That is to be expected and not a sign of some evil conspiracy.

[Steve Guttag]

Being selfish is NOT a constitutional right. If you take Steve's argument to it's logical conclusion, it should be illegal for any state to require "papers" to drive a car, or to make drunk driving illegal and/or put up checkpoints to prevent people from traveling unless the prove themselves not drunk, because while the potential is there, not every drunk driver will cause an accident. In fact, most do not.

Watch yourself Mitchell. You think you are judge and jury on what is "selfish" but that is not the case, you certainly can have the opinion you wish. As for the logical conclusion and driving...um...you just compared a legally recognized privilege to a right. They have dramatically different rules associated with them. That is why they CAN require papers for driving...right down to the Driver's License and Registration. They can compel insurance and damn near any other rule they want to pass in order to drive...so any other rule following and involving driving stems from it being a privilege.

Around last year around this time, NJ, NY, and CT would not let people from outside those neighboring states enter even by private car, as did Florida. The State Police enforced it. Those rules were actually challenged, and held up as legal by the Federal Courts, as was Florida's blocking drivers from the NY area. At this point, nobody is suggesting the preventing free association or travel, what they are saying is you can not do it on other people property or vehicles.

I seem to recall these, I don't believe they went up the Supreme Court...I don't think they would stand. Article 4 essentially grants the rights to a visiting citizen of state the same rights as a resident citizen. If a Florida resident visited a banned state" and returned...essentially presenting the same risk. It, constitutionally has problems.

Imagine the world we would be living in today if our grandparents generation believed it was a "right" to endanger others.

I reject your whole premise of that statement. Traveling from state to state does not, in and of itself, endanger anyone.

I don't have a problem with the CDC, myself, either. However, you are conflating things (constitutional rights and CDC recommendations). But that is something different than one state restricting travel from another state. Rights are not impenetrable. One can be denied their rights, constitutionally, but you need to provide due-process to do so. I don't think a state can unilaterally say nobody from another state can come in unless you prove you are virus free. Many airports are taking people's temps as they go through though the various stages (happened to me)...see that gives probable cause and it is non-invasive. I think if the banning of free travel between states were tested at the Supreme level, it would fail and I, personally, think it should fail.

As for vaccinating against C19, I think it should be compulsory regardless of religion and with the only exception being if the likelihood of a medical condition would make the vaccine more lethal than the virus. Smallpox has been a case tried all of the way up to the Supreme Court with respect to vaccinations so there is precedent for it. Only if there was something in the particulars of the two situations would it have problems but I don't think it would.