Covid testing trauma

[Bobby Henderson]

By percentage of population, the least vaccinated group is African Americans.

African Americans make up only 14% of the entire population of the United States. That's not anywhere near enough to explain the 80 some-odd million Americans who are not vaccinated at all. There is a great deal of white people in the US who deliberately chose not to get vaccinated. I certainly know that's the case here in Oklahoma, one of the least vaccinated states.

Of the African Americans who have chosen not to get vaccinated it's kind of easy to understand why they don't trust "the man," particularly when it comes to medical advice. Bits of history like the Tuskeegee Experiment and the Eugenics movement along with the standard of sub-standard medical care provided help influence those choices. White Americans can't fall back on the same excuse.

Also, you are wrong when you say that people are motivated by politics. They are motivated by distrust in Government.

Distrust in Government is one of the favorite flavors in political campaigning. Distrust in government has been a central theme of one of the two major parties in the US for more than four decades.

This isn't a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" no matter what Fauci says.

The percentage of unvaccinated people with COVID-19 clogging the hospitals proves otherwise. It is a fact the unvaccinated are driving this latest and largely avoidable surge.

I actually personally know more people who are fully vaccinated and have had breakthrough cases than I know who had a case before vaccines were available or are unvaccinated and got infected.

That's a personal anecdote that doesn't prove anything. My own experience is opposite of yours. Of the couple friends and acquittances I knew who've died of COVID-19 all were not vaccinated. Most of the people I know who got infected (including myself) were not vaccinated yet. I know only a couple people who've had break-through infections, one of whom is a lady in of our local AMBUCS civic club chapters. She's slowly recovering and thankfully has avoided the hospital (since there is no room there). She is also thankful she was vaccinated already; she might be dead otherwise, particularly because of certain health risks.

The vaccines are not 100% effective at preventing infection. 95% efficacy is about the best number I've seen. That still translates to at least 1 out of every 20 vaccinated people getting COVID-19 anyway. Of the people who do get break-through infections the vast majority have minor or asymptomatic cases. Their odds are a lot better than those who are not vaccinated.

[Geoff Jones]

By percentage of population, the least vaccinated group is African Americans.

Do you have a source for that statement? According to the data I've seen, 66 percent of whites are vaccinated and 76 percent of blacks are vaccinated. Be careful that you aren't being misled by racist talking points being shared online.

Also, you are wrong when you say that people are motivated by politics.

I'm curious to know how you know what motivates people? Have you conducted surveys?


According to an NBC news poll from August 22, 2012:

Here are the American adults who say they’ve already been vaccinated — broken down by demographic group:

• All adults: 69 percent
• Men: 67 percent
• Women: 71 percent
• 18-34: 63 percent
• 35-49: 58 percent
• 50-64: 71 percent
• 65+: 86 percent
• Whites: 66 percent
• Blacks: 76 percent
• Latinos: 71 percent
• Urban residents: 79 percent
• Suburban residents: 67 percent
• Rural residents: 52 percent
• White evangelicals: 59 percent
• Democrats: 88 percent
• Independents: 60 percent
• Republicans: 55 percent
• Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent
• Republicans who support party more than Trump: 62 percent
• Democratic Sanders-Warren voters: 88 percent
• Democratic Biden voters: 87 percent
• Biden voters in 2020 general election: 91 percent
• Trump voters in 2020 general election: 50 percent
• White non-college grads: 60 percent
• White college grads: 80 percent

However, take a look at Scotland. 91% of their 18+ population has at least one vaccine dose. They are currently in the middle of their worst outbreak of the entire pandemic which is over twice the daily cases of the prior worst.

It's true that Scotland is experiencing a high case rate right now, with an average of 117 cases per 100,000 people. I don't know if I would characterize it as their worst outbreak of the entire pandemic, however. Thanks to Scotland's high vaccination rate, their death rate is only 0.2 per 100,000 people. Florida, on the other hand, is reporting 1.63 deaths per 100,000 people despite averaging "only" 67 cases per 100,000. That is definitely their worst outbreak of the entire pandemic, so far, at least.

I know people like to blame a segment with certain political beliefs for the current COVID situation.

The fact of the matter is that people are dying because they can't get treatment because of unvaccinated troglodytes clogging the hospitals.

[Bobby Henderson]

Do you have a source for that statement? According to the data I've seen, 66 percent of whites are vaccinated and 76 percent of blacks are vaccinated. Be careful that you aren't being misled by racist talking points being shared online.

There was some vaccine hesitancy among African Americans when the vaccines started rolling out, but it does look like things have changed among that group. It's also possible people in that group are getting confronted more with mandatory rules from their work places that they mask-up and/or get vaccinated. I see far more people in service industries masking up on the job than I do in higher paid jobs. Just an anecdotal observation: here in Lawton I'm seeing more Black people still masking up in public, more so than White people here. We have a large military population here, which is a little different from the rest of the state. Nevertheless, our county is only just now hitting the 50% mark in terms of vaccination rate. Our local hospitals and staff are feeling the brunt of that.

[Lyle Romer]

The percentage of unvaccinated people with COVID-19 clogging the hospitals proves otherwise. It is a fact the unvaccinated are driving this latest and largely avoidable surge.

While there is a higher significantly higher chance of ending up in the hospital if you are not vaccinated, being vaccinated does not make that chance close to zero as was though with the early data. In Orange County, FL last week they reported that 41 of 191 deaths were fully vaccinated people. That makes the vaccine about 73% effective against death based on the vaccination rate there.

Certainly I'd rather cut my risk by 73% but even if 100% of people were vaccinated, there would still be a surge and in most places it would still be worse than the first few months of the pandemic when we were locking down everywhere.

My point was that it isn't only unvaccinated people that are involved which is what Fauci implied a couple of months back when he called it a "pandemic of the unvaccinated." Once the federal and other employer mandates take effect and we end up with 90% of adults vaccinated, who will be the boogyman that is at fault for the continuing pandemic and related issues?

The narrative is basically "if it weren't for those ignorant hayseeds then nobody would have to worry about COVID." That simply isn't true. COVID is highly unlikely to ever go away. Vermont has 78.5% of adults FULLY vaccinated and still has high community spread in all but two counties (which have substantial spread). That vaccination rate is on top of being a rural state with mostly very low population density.

The vaccines also have some downside with side effects. My wife was basically knocked out for a day and had really bad chills, I was knocked out for several hours and my mom had terrible chills and a multi hour episode of a very elevated heart rate. Now to stay "fully vaccinated" people will be expected to go through that every few months? I'm not anti-vaccine (obviously since I took it) but I can understand why some don't want it especially since it apparently doesn't lead to the "herd immunity" that was thought would happen.

[Steve Guttag]

No, it really is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. The ability of the delta, or any other variant, to set up shop is really augmented by the unvaccinated that that provide only natural immunity, which is very low, even if the severity is low, nothing stops it from transferring about and mutating. Knocking that way down, even using your numbers 73% (and Pfizer was derated on Delta to something in the 80s)...those numbers will derate further over time, hence the booster. The difference isn't trivial but the statistical chance of death while vaccinated is VERY small. The statistical chance of a vaccinated "breakout" case causing another breakout case is REALLY small (as in stay at home because just getting on the roadway is a greater risk).

[Bobby Henderson]

The statistical chance of a vaccinated "breakout" case causing another breakout case is REALLY small (as in stay at home because just getting on the roadway is a greater risk).

Exactly. If the vast majority of the population was fully vaccinated the SARS-CoV-2 virus would burn itself out. It would not have enough new hosts to infect and spread further. The chain of spread gets broken.

The people who choose to remain unvaccinated are willing links in the chain of SARS-CoV-2 transmission. They're literally choosing to keep this pandemic alive and sustained. It's really inconsiderate as hell considering there are still a bunch of people who cannot get vaccinated: young children. There are children who are dying of COVID-19. Unvaccinated adults are helping spread it to those kids.

While there is a higher significantly higher chance of ending up in the hospital if you are not vaccinated, being vaccinated does not make that chance close to zero as was though with the early data. In Orange County, FL last week they reported that 41 of 191 deaths were fully vaccinated people.

That still works out to the vast majority of those deaths being unvaccinated people. Also I'd like to know more about the 41 vaccinated people who died. What other kinds of health conditions did they have that might have contributed to their demise?

We haven't had many COVID-19 deaths of fully vaccinated people at all in my location. Of the vaccinated people who have died most were in advanced old age and with other degenerative conditions, such dementia, heart failure, etc. COVID-19 does have a track record of killing some people who are otherwise perfectly healthy, even athletic. For some people it's like drawing a really bad hand in poker. For what ever reason the SARS-CoV-2 virus make their immune system go totally ape-shit, trying to attack the virus and the body at the same time, blowing all its ammo in a frenzy and then leaving the person completely defenseless to the virus and other pathogens afterward.

The vaccines also have some downside with side effects.

COVID-19 has plenty of its own side effects. I'd had very little issue with the Pfizer vaccine. I know several people who got knocked on their cans by the Moderna vaccine, as if they caught a really bad cold or the flu. I think the side effects of COVID-19 are a lot worse.

I only had a really minor case of COVID-19 just after Thanksgiving last year going into December. I thought I had a sinus infection or something like that. But then I completely lost my ability to smell or taste anything. I had 2 negative tests when I swore I was actively infected. Late in December after I got better I donated platelets at Oklahoma Blood Institute and came up positive for SARS-CoV-2 anti-bodies. Over 9 months later, my sense of smell is still not fully recovered. There is all kinds of things that smell and taste different now. My cousin Jennifer had COVID-19 around the same time as me; her sense of smell is worse off than mine. My cousin Tommy had COVID-19 in the Summer of 2020; he only barely smell or taste anything.

At first it seems kind of comical to lose the sense of smell. But it's a pretty serious issue. Even though my senses are partially recovered I'm paranoid about cleaning things, taking out the garbage early and not letting food get close at all to expiration. How can you tell if some foods have gone bad if you can't smell it? How can you know if some part of your house is stinking with foul odors if you can't smell that?

I'd have more respect for the anti-vaccine hold-outs if they just said they're afraid of needles. They could try a platelet needle out some time at a blood donation center; a vaccine needle is nothing compared to that. Still, fear of needles is a real thing. A bunch of the other stuff the anti-vax folks are touting is just bullshit.

[Mike Blakesley]

The fear of needles is real but these needles are almost completely innocuous. The first shot, I didn't feel it at all - I said "You've done it already?" after it was over. The second one was just like a very slight pinprick that didn't hurt in the least.

I talked to a guy last night who is fully convinced that it's all a population control plot. The vaccine messes with your DNA and will make your descendants unable to bear children, according to him. He said a Navy SEAL told him this so he's completely on board.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Ah, it only affects our descendants... A good plot needs to unfold in a far away future, so we can't question it right now, right?

And that Navy SEAL must have been part of the secret cabal that runs the world, right?

Can't wait for the movie...

[Geoff Jones]

This is great stuff. I could make a career out of this guy! You see how clever his part is? How it doesn't require a shred of proof? Most paranoid delusions are intricate, but this is brilliant!

- Dr. Silberman

The Terminator, J. Cameron, Orion Pictures, 1984

[Bobby Henderson]

The COVID-19 vaccines are a population control plot? That's a laugh riot.

That guy who got his news from a Navy SEAL obviously hasn't been aware of current population and demographic trends. The high cost of parenthood has already, unintentionally become a population control measure. Young adults are having fewer children than ever before. The US is now on a demographics trend that may cost us economically and militarily in the decades ahead.

The Total Fertility Rate in European nations has been well below replacement rate levels for some time. Various European nations have liberalized immigration policies in part because they need more younger bodies to get work done. TFR has been very low in Japan for decades; they're now dealing with really serious consequences from it. China's TFR is trapped at low levels, partly an enduring consequence of their now-ended one-child policy. The problem is most young adults of child-bearing age in China are working very long schedules. Most workers have neither the time or the money for parenthood. Birth rates are even slowing down in India, currently the world's most populous nation.

The TFR in the US had been hovering near the replacement rate level 2.1 births per American-born female from the 1970's to mid 2000's. All the net population growth in the US during that time came via immigration and higher birth rates of immigrants. A global recession and relentless price inflation for health care, day care, family-size housing, education and other trappings of parenthood have convinced more people to opt out of parenthood. Now even immigrants coming into the US today (legally or illegally) are having fewer kids. Now the TFR in the US is 1.7 and trending downward. Women are increasingly having to be self-reliant, pursuing their own careers and supporting themselves financially. Having a child in today's cost situation utterly derails that, especially since so many of us men are unreliable, unfaithful fuck-ups. Many young women have clearly seen how badly single mothers have had to struggle. As a result teens and child-less adult women are getting very good at avoiding pregnancy in the first place.

It's probably a good thing I'm not a white supremacist or someone who seeks out to troll those people. That's because it would be very easy to scare the living hell out of bigots with these population trends. For instance, the 2020 Census revealed America's population of white people shrank for the first time in history.

One place in the world that still has high birth rates: AFRICA. Of the 20 nations with the youngest median age population 19 of them are in Africa. By 2030 over 40% of the world's youth will be in Africa. These trends have a lot of potential for either good things or very terrible things. Africa could turn into an economic power house or a military nightmare. China is already at work trying to establish economic and military ties on that continent.

[Frank Cox]

Two women, both of whom come to the show maybe three or four times a year (and actually the only people who were at tonight's show) came out afterward and asked me about the vaccine passports. These will be required at all movie theatres, restaurants, bars, casinos, hockey games and whatnot starting next Friday, Oct 1.

"Are you going to require those vaccine passports next week?"

"Of course. I'm required to do so by the law and it makes a good deal of sense to do that anyway."

"Well, that's discriminatory and...." etc. etc. etc.

I just told them that I'm not going to argue the point and they both went away mad at me. I think they thought I would tell them that they didn't need vaccine passports, but that not going to happen.

These passports are not required until next week and I've already had a confrontation about it. Oh well. I still think they're a good idea that will both incentivize people to get the vaccine and also make people feel safer at the theatre. Those who don't like it can do something else.

Unfortunately, I just read an article stating that the health department has somehow screwed up the qr codes for the vaccine passports issued up to today, and anyone who has already downloaded their passport will have to download it again next week. My wife and I downloaded ours a few days ago and the website to get them from was just slammed since there's literally a million people trying to get their documents downloaded; now if everyone has to do it again I'm sure it's going to be deluged even more than it was up to now. I guess we can do the download in the middle of the night or something if we have to.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I guess the best way to avoid any arguments is to simply keep it to something like this: "I'm legally required to do this, if I don't comply, I risk them closing my business. I can't make any exceptions, because for what I know, you might work for the government or it may leak out that I'm doing exceptions."

By keeping your personal opinion out of it, you put any blame on someone else and you hopefully can avoid any personal confrontation. Some people can get real angry about this stuff and before you know, you're in a shouting match or worse. It's one thing to loose a (potential) customer this way, but it's not worth to get yourself in harms way to get a point across. Just last week or so, in Germany, someone was shot for insisting a customer to abide by the mask policy.

[Steve Guttag]

Wait, you don't get to pick and choose which laws to abide by and which ones just seem silly or don't apply to you? When did this start?

[Marcel Birgelen]

Laws and regulations are like an all you can eat buffet where you're required to eat every item on offer, but when it's busy and the chef isn't looking, you're sometimes able to skip the stale mac 'n cheese.

Well, that is as shitty a metaphor I could come up with.

[Leo Enticknap]

It's one thing to loose a (potential) customer this way, but it's not worth to get yourself in harms way to get a point across. Just last week or so, in Germany, someone was shot for insisting a customer to abide by the mask policy.

The risk is not just of physical harm. Following a confrontation at a New York restaurant a week or so ago, an attempt is being made to politicize the incident, and place the business that was caught in the middle at the epicenter of a race, identity politics, and pro-vax vs. anti-vax conflict. I bet that coverage of the incident has already resulted in a sharp reduction in customers - would you want to eat there, given the risk that you might find yourself in the middle of a possibly violent protest?