Corona Virus Effect On Theatres In The USA

[Lyle Romer]

I've heard that story before. It sounds like bullshit to me. A bunch of these people the hospitals are treating don't have the money to pay the fortune of health care bills piling up. And it's sure as shit guaranteed the insurance companies are going to try their best to wriggle their way out of paying (that is if the patient even has any health insurance coverage).

It is 100% not bullshit at all and the reason for it is basically what you described. The insurance companies waived co-pays/co-insurance if you are being treated for COVID-19. Therefore, the hospital doesn't have to collect anything from the patient. Also, if somebody doesn't have insurance, the federal government is picking up the tab. I'm sure the insurance companies will eventually get some kind of bailout for the losses they incur paying for COVID treatment.

[Mike Blakesley]

Mike, first off all, it's sad to hear your mom passed away. The circumstances we currently live in, don't really help with the process of digesting the loss of a loved one. A friend of mine, who lives in the U.S. but the rest of his family lives back over here in Europe, also had his mom pass away recently. He wasn't even able to attend his mother's funeral, because of all the travel restrictions in place...

Thank you.... I admit to occasionally going off the deep end a couple of times over the past few days, but I'm no conspiracy theorist. I don't see how people can live that way actually... I think it would make me suicidal.

My friend told me the "skydiving" comment just about a week before my mom passed, and he happened to be the on-call coroner when she died. I said, "You're not going to list this as a COVID death, are you?" Because she had been otherwise healthy for being 88. He said no, she wasn't going to be tested since she'd had no COVID symptoms. So at least we don't have to live with a "the virus killed my mom" memory.

[Leo Enticknap]

The feds are telling states bleeding red ink to "go file bankruptcy."

They had to walk that back, once the realization set in that if you allow a state to go bankrupt, you effectively remove its sovereignty and all the powers devolved to it under the Constitution. Bankruptcy means that administrators get to run your business, or in this case, your state, with the governor and state legislature being told to go take a hike while federal officials make decisions about what happens to taxation and spending within the state. One of the very few things that a majority on both sides of the aisle appear to agree on is that this would have a whole slew of highly undesirable consequences for everyone.

[Bobby Henderson]

It is 100% not bullshit at all and the reason for it is basically what you described. The insurance companies waived co-pays/co-insurance if you are being treated for COVID-19. Therefore, the hospital doesn't have to collect anything from the patient. Also, if somebody doesn't have insurance, the federal government is picking up the tab. I'm sure the insurance companies will eventually get some kind of bailout for the losses they incur paying for COVID treatment.

There's a problem with that theory. The federal government is not covering all COVID-19 treatment costs. They did not give the health care system a blank check and slush fund for non-COVID treatment. IIRC, the CARES act got $100 billion in funding mainly to help hospitals cover financial losses for COVID-19 related treatment. Estimates say this pandemic is going to have a far higher cost to the US health care system and patients. Many hospitals have been bleeding red ink from having to call off more profitable elective procedures during this pandemic and even lay off a bunch of health care workers. Covering patient gaps in insurance coverage or uninsured COVID-19 patients is down the priorities list.

Patients are already getting price gouged regardless if they have insurance coverage or not. Early on I was disgusted by one news story of a lady trying to get a SARS-CoV-2 test, being turned away because her symptoms weren't severe enough, yet still getting billed $3000 for the trouble. With today being "national nurse's day," I heard a story of a nurse who was hospitalized with COVID-19 while pregnant. She suffered a heart attack, so they had to deliver her baby via emergency c-section. She needs a bunch more treatment, but both the nurses union and the health insurance company are balking at the cost. The nurse's family is posting GoFundMe pages and what not. There's no mention of the CARES act stepping in to help.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10....13.78972/full/

The Families First Act and the CARES Act are critical first steps to addressing the costs associated with COVID-19 testing and diagnosis. But significant gaps remain, ranging from surprise medical bills to expanded subsidies for employer or individual market coverage. One area of increased attention is the need to waive cost-sharing for COVID-19 treatment (not just COVID-19 testing).

Analogizing to pneumonia-related costs, one study estimates that COVID-19 treatment costs could range from about $10,000 (for patients with no complications or comorbidities) to $20,000 (for patients with major complications or comorbidities). Another suggests that the total average charge per COVID-19 patient that needed a hospital stay would be more than $73,000. A separate analysis, commissioned by America’s Health Insurance Plans, estimates that total costs of COVID-19 for commercially insured individuals could range from $44.6 billion to $438 billion over the next two years.

Insured patients would not bear the full brunt of these costs, but out-of-pocket costs could still be substantial. Since different plans have different cost-sharing configurations and actuarial values, these costs could be extensive for consumers who need treatment. While patients would be somewhat insulated by their plan’s annual out-of-pocket maximum, they could face additional out-of-pocket costs due to COVID-19-related surprise medical bills. (The White House suggests it will prohibit hospitals that receive funds under the CARES Act from sending surprise bills; this could be a powerful protection, but it is unclear how extensive this requirement will be.)

This article is mainly talking about the normal out of pocket costs and surprise costs to patients with insurance coverage. There's tens of millions of Americans with zero coverage. And a bunch are in these low wage "essential jobs" categories, like cashiers at the grocery store.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Somewhat related, has anyone seen a graph of deaths per day in the US from all causes? I can only find the covid deaths.

[Lyle Romer]

Somewhat related, has anyone seen a graph of deaths per day in the US from all causes? I can only find the covid deaths.

The CDC has a weekly tabulation at https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/. The more recent the week, the less complete the data is. It shows about a 21% increase from baseline to peak COVID week. What won't be seen for several months is how much of that increase results in a decrease over the course of the next few months where deaths were accelerated due to COVID but the deceased were (to put it a little coldly) on the 1 yard line already. I imagine a very high percentage of the nursing home deaths fall into this category.

When taken as a whole, I expect 2020 to have a higher number of deaths than would have occurred if not for COVID. How much higher is hard to predict. My guess is that it won't be near the apocalyptic level indicated by the way it is being reported.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Thanks! Very interesting data. I put a sreenshot below. It does take a few weeks for all the data to show up, so the 35% of expected deaths in the week of 5/2/20 is certainly going to rise. So far, we've seen a peak of 126% of expected deaths. That could also go up as more data comes in. It will be interesting to see if the percentage of expected deaths takes a dip in the next few months. If so, some of that could be do to early deaths that would have occurred this year anyway. Some could be due to efforts made to reduce the transmission of covid-19, which also prevents the transmission of a bunch of other stuff (but not heart disease!).

Thanks for the link! I'll be watching it.

Harold



Screenshot 2020-05-07 at 10.27.11 AM.png

[Mitchell Dvoskin]

That chart, while entertaining, is of dubious value. The problem is that pneumonia and influenza associated with COVID-19 are actually terms to describe the COVIN-19 symptoms but not the same disease virus as actual pneumonia and influenza, which is why the existing vaccines against pneumonia and influenza will not protect you from the serious form of Coronavirus. While it is certainly possible to contract both viruses at the same time, there would be no way to tell which one actually caused a death do to identical effects.

[Harold Hallikainen]

What I find most interesting on the table is death from all causes. There can be no misclassification there. The week of April 11, it was 126% of expected. The first several lines on the table are pretty stable right around 100%.

[Carsten Kurz]

There' s more creepy stuff than just SARS-CoV-2:

https://worldofbuzz.com/mould-has-gr...-to-customers/

[Van Dalton]

Taking the liberty:

Recently you might’ve seen photos of leather shoes and bags at a Malaysian mall covered in mould after being left alone for the past few months during the movement control order (MCO).

With the humid atmosphere and no proper air circulation, mould has started to grow on other surfaces as well. One of them is cinema seats!

Several photos posted on social media shows the horrifying sight of white and fuzzy mould covering all the seats in a cinema theatre somewhere in Malaysia.

It wasn’t specified where the exact location is, but netizens are saying it happened in Ipoh, Perak, reported China Press. Needless to say, this could be the case for other cinema theatres in Malaysia as well since all cinema businesses were not in operation for the past few months.

Mould grows in moist environments and fabrics such as upholstery can absorb the moisture from the air and provide an ideal place for mould to grow, according to Home Guides.

This poses a serious risk to the health of anyone who goes to these places if they were to reopen without proper deep cleansing as mould can cause respiratory problems. According to WebMD, exposure to mould can irritate your eyes, skin, nose, throat and lungs.

Some people who are more sensitive to mould could experience allergic reactions like sneezing, runny nose, red eyes, skin rash and asthma attacks for those with asthma.

Now that businesses are starting to open again, we hope that the owners will look into this serious problem and get rid of all signs of mould before letting customers back into their shops. If you spot mould on surfaces, do alert the shop owners about it.

Well, it's been very humid and rainy the last month or so, though we got lucky and had a few sunny mid 70s-80+ degree days the previous couple of weeks. But very very humid. I could only imagine the state the AMCrapotopia ratbox along my drive to work must be in by now, it was a borderline health hazard to begin with but now probably uninhabitable.

The skaters actually built a nice little makeshift half-pipe thing out back from some wooden pallets, the back of one of their old cinema seats* and some other junk. The place was already far enough gone that the property the theatre sits on probably far exceeds the building's value as a cinema.

* To AMC's dubious credit they reportedly had been doing some maintenence (!) before the pan(dem)ic started. It was definitely one of theirs. You could tell from the gaffer's tape on the faux-leather backrest. The building doesn't appear to have been broken into. Skater kids probably dug it out of the trash since the bins are also back there.

[Richard Coleman]

Mold is a real problem for closed up theaters. I know. I owned one that was closed for an extended period before. It seems that mold likes seats a lot, as well as surfaces in and near the concessions counter. It grows wherever there is organic material to feed on. My inherently fire resistant (IFR) drapes (made from non-organic polyester) had almost no mold. Just one spot where someone touched it with a greasy hand. Pretty much every seat had mold. The mold grew when the weather warmed up. I think its favorite food must have been coconut oil or butter topping from the popcorn, and also body oil from the customers.

To help prevent mold, you can make sure the building is well ventilated, probably by leaving the air conditioning on, but that can be costly as well for a non-operating business. That might help some, but may not completely eliminate mold issues.

Once it's there, it must be cleaned. Luckily, the mold I had was not toxic black mold, but white or gray. I tried cleaning it with mild cleaner, because I did not want to leave a residue or damage the fabric. The mold came back. I thought of trying bleach, but was worried that would really damage the fabric. I knew from experience that mold often comes back after cleaning with bleach anyway. I read that vinegar actually works better than bleach, but I was afraid if I used that much vinegar on all those soft seats that it would retain the smell for a long time. I had tried vinegar on an area in a restroom where repeated cleaning with bleach never seemed to keep the mold away for long. Once I cleaned it with vinegar, I did not see that mold again.

I read online that something called Grapefruit Seed Extract or GSE (not grapefruit extract) is a very good anti-mold agent. You can usually find it in health food stores as a supplement. It only takes a number of drops to a gallon of water (read the instructions to determine that number, although the instructions were for human consumption, I think I used 120 drops per gallon, but don't hold me to it). I wiped off the seats with a damp towel to remove the visible mold and then sprayed them down with the GSE solution (do not wipe it off, although you could possibly rub it in if desired). The place was closed up for a few more years after that without any mold growing on the seats. Some areas where I missed cleaning in the concession area because I did not initially see mold, did grow mold later, but that was not because the GSE didn't work. GSE has no smell. It's non-toxic. It goes a long way and is affordable. And, no I don't own stock or anything.

[Richard Coleman]

I'm also wondering if using a Grapefruit Seed Extract (GSE) solution in a spray bottle or pump up sprayer might be a way to sanitize large areas after customer use. I don't know the answer to that one, although a number of internet sites claim it is an effective antiviral and antibacterial agent. It is supposed to break down the coating on the microbe and kill it pretty quickly. I'm not a doctor or a scientist, nor do I play one on TV, so I can't tell you if this would work or not. But, I know I wouldn't want to spray down everything with some toxic chemical every few hours and not expect it to build up or affect the customers with smells, rashes, etc. Whatever you use has to be safe.

[Mitchell Dvoskin]

Now with theatres reopening in some states and with occupancy and spacing restrictions limiting most venues to 50% of their actual capacity, I am wondering if even if the public immediately comes back, will the lower maximum attendance limit grosses enough so that all distributors start seriously thinking about day and date theatrical and streaming releases. The only reason the window still exists, from a distributor point of view, is that it ultimately generates more profit for their releases. If theatrical is no longer pulling it's weight, I fear that others will follow Universal's lead. Like Universal, I don't think it will be an on/off switch regarding windows, but a slow eroding where some features will maintain the window for "prestige" purposes, and other will be day and date.

[Frank Cox]

I wonder if some of the high-cost high-rent-area theatres will be viable if they can only run at half capacity....