Customers really pay NO attention, do they?

[William Kucharski]

Last December, I went to see a film in theater five of the AMC Westminster Promenade 24 theater in Westminster, CO.

The sound was messed up: all the channels are apparently off by one, with all dialog coming out the left channel, the right channel coming out of the center, and the right surround coming out the right channel.

At the time I complained, and they gave everyone the choice of getting readmit passes or staying; I took the pass.

Fast forward to today; I went to go see Licorice Pizza again as part of their OSCAR series. Uh oh, theater five.

The sound is still messed up in the exact same way.

The GM thought the issue was fixed because corporate came in and replaced all their amps, so the issue must be in the wiring.

However, he also said I am the only person to have complained, though he did stand in the theater with me and verify that was what was going on. He even shut off the amps for the L and C channels in the booth and verified that with those two channels off there was no dialogue, and with just the right channel amp on you could hear the audio pump, showing it wasn’t right channel audio but right surround.

So for around five shows per day, seven days per week for over three months, only I complained. (If he was just saying that to placate me he wouldn’t have spent twenty minutes turning amps on and off to check the issue making the other patrons wonder what was going on.)

They theoretically are going to contact the AMC “tech help desk” - but no wonder tech standards are now zero if for three months no one complained about something as obvious as all on-screen dialogue coming out of only the left side of the screen.

I am just floored.

[Carsten Kurz]

I guess most patrons simply lack the necessary knowledge about 'channels' and 'sides' in a cinema. It's probably as simple as not 'seeing' the speaker, so they have no idea that sound should originate from somewhere. It is a shame these places have no body on site to diagnose basic issues like this. Don't know what type of amps they have there, but, in general, it would probably be as simple as unplugging and replugging three or four connectors into the right amps. Probably the wires leading to these amps are already labeled, so, all they'd need to to is match the wire labels and amp labels. Yes, some modern systems use high density multichannel connectors or other means, but, in these cases, the chances of mixed chancels would be very low already from the start. Probably someone changed amps and mixed cables, like XLR or TRS plugs.

[Geoff Jones]

Westminster Promenade is the closest theater to my home (< 4 miles), but I wouldn't see a movie there for free, unless maybe it was in the Laser Liemax auditorium. (It's the only one within hundreds of miles). Even then, I usually opt to go somewhere else, or wait and watch it at home.

There are still a lot of people out there who care about presentation. That's evident from the chatter on various forums.

The fact that Promenade hasn't gotten any other complaints is evidence that the people who care have given up on that location. Three months is nothing. This shit has been going on at the Continental for six years. It's pretty much the same story at all the Regal and AMC theaters I've visited in the area.

I was excited to take my daughter to see ALIEN for the first time ever on the big screen right before Disney bought Fox and pulled it from distribution. We saw it at AMC Orchard and experienced the same problem: The center channel was coming from the right. I should have just showed it to her at home.

Many (most?) of the people who care about presentation have invested in home theaters where they get consistently better picture and sound.

[Sam Chavez]

I had one new construction location in a bay are cinema multiplex/Imax where one surround speaker was playing audio from another screen! Imagine watching Billboard 221 or whatever it was called playing surround audio from some outer space epic.

Even with knowing and calling tech people there it took days to sort it out. The rest of the audience didn't even seem to notice. They thought it was leakage thru the wall but that film was playing way down the complex.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

That's an interesting story.... Were the speakers actually wired wrong or just programmed wrong in the QSC?

[Martin Brooks]

I've experienced this on a number of occasions over the years. One time they told me that the center channel had blown, so they moved center to the right and I should sit on that side of the theater. I got my money back.

In ALL of the other instances, I was told that I was the only person who complained. One time, I got my money back and went to another theater in the same chain. Same problem. So either the same tech mis-wired or mis-programmed the theaters or there was a defective mix.

I remember similar problems in different theaters for Scorcese's "Hugo".

I'm not surprised that I was the only person who complained. Most patrons just figure, "it's supposed to be that way". And they're not very sophisticated about sound. If they were, they wouldn't choose to sit on the extreme left or right of the theater.

I also used to complain when there was a very dim digital image because the 3D filter was left on the projector for 2D presentations. It was always the same, "That's the way it's supposed to be and no one else complained."

I've been in theaters where the trailers started playing with no audio whatsoever. You'd think the (New York City) audience would go nuts and start screaming. But nothing. In every case, I'm the person who goes out to tell management that there's no audio.

Even decades ago, when I saw E.T. in 70mm at Movieland in NYC (formerly the Forum 47th St./Forum / Odeon / Holiday / Gotham / Central), it was probably the first time they played 70mm and there was a 60 cycle hum throughout the presentation. It was a packed house (1100 seats) and I was in a center seat and couldn't really get up to complain. At the end of the show, I complained to some guys sitting in an office at the theater and one guy said to the other, "Oh, he heard the hum". Again, over 1000 people and I was the only one who complained. They gave me a pass, but I figured they probably weren't going to fix it and even if they did, I didn't really need to see the movie again, so I gave the pass to a co-worker of mine.

But in spite of the above, I do have to say that from 2002 to 2005, I gigged for a company that evaluated the quality of prints and presentation on premiere day for each film they were contracted for. There was rarely a problem. And in recent years as a patron, there have been presentations that have been better or worse than others, but I have not experienced any major issues, although I only patronize the theaters that I know usually present well and within those theaters, only certain screens.

[Bobby Henderson]

Any business that tells a customer, "you're the only one who has complained," should not be in business at all. That is a display of sheer absence of professionalism. Leaving it up to customers to notice a problem before thinking about fixing those problems is a very precarious business model.

Many kinds of businesses have operations where they do lots of their own quality control checks. In some cases these QC checks are vital to protect the safety of customers or even the general public. Plenty of other businesses sweat the small stuff as a means of protecting their brand's integrity and reputation. Any restaurant that wants to stay in business more than a very short amount of time will ensure they're not serving customers spoiled food.

Our local AMC in Lawton (originally opened by Carmike) has been going downhill. I haven't heard any of the odd channel placement issues in the sound systems. But generally the audio levels in all but the IMAX house are turned down quite a bit and even the IMAX house isn't nearly as loud as it used to be. The bigger problem I'm seeing at our local theater is damage to seats and other equipment that is not getting fixed. I'm guessing AMC is too broke to do anything about it. Maybe it's even a miracle this theater is still open.

I've been in theaters where the trailers started playing with no audio whatsoever. You'd think the (New York City) audience would go nuts and start screaming. But nothing. In every case, I'm the person who goes out to tell management that there's no audio.

This is because many people are lazy as all hell. I've been in the same position. Something is malfunctioning in the show, like no audio. Damned near every time I'm the guy who ends up having to jog out of the auditorium and find a manager. All the other turds inside the auditorium just play the game of waiting it out. It's like a contest. They don't feel like getting their ass out of the chair. So they wait for someone else to be inconvenienced. Some of these fuckers would probably watch half the movie in total silence just to outlast everyone else.

[Marcel Birgelen]

This is because many people are lazy as all hell. I've been in the same position. Something is malfunctioning in the show, like no audio. Damned near every time I'm the guy who ends up having to jog out of the auditorium and find a manager. All the other turds inside the auditorium just play the game of waiting it out. It's like a contest. They don't feel like getting their ass out of the chair. So they wait for someone else to be inconvenienced. Some of these fuckers would probably watch half the movie in total silence just to outlast everyone else.

I don't know what it is... is it laziness or just pure ignorance... or something else? It happened as recently as the tatest Batman movie... the screen went dark, but audio kept playing. Well, it is a dark movie, but after a minute without something on screen but the audio continuing to blast on all channels, it should be obvious to anybody, something went wrong.

Actually, it was obvious to me instantaneously, because there was no residue light left, besides a few dim emergency exits, the theater was entirely dark, no more light coming from the screen whatsoever. So, whatever happened, it shut down the light source and/or the dowser in the projector. Still, I decided to wait... because it's ALWAYS me who ends up getting up and heading towards the lobby. Sometimes, it's even me, ending up at the projector, while the only intention was to have a nice evening out... (That happens when the "popcorn artist" on projector duty remembers: Hey, weren't you the guy who fixed this shit last time you were around and I couldn't figure out what button to press?)

The funny thing is, once I got up and went out the door, others followed... So, I'm not sure if it's just laziness in this case, it's more like the sheeple thing I guess... Like, in some cases, people don't want to be the first... Which, ironically, was in stark contrast to what happened when the room first opened (the place still has free seating), as people literally ran across the hallway to get to their favorite seats, which, for whatever idiotic reason, are always in the VERY BACK of the room...

[Tony Bandiera Jr]

Back in my days at a certain art circuit in LA LA Land I had a particularly lazy relief operator who would NEVER check the screen after starting a show and when the feature began.

I was going away for two weeks (my Air Natl Guard yearly stint) so I deliberately spliced in all four screens' "No Smoking" snipes upside down. (They were MOS)

Not only did that lazy slug never catch it, neither did the anal retentive manager (who always supposedly checked each screen as well) but NOT ONE of the patrons complained either.

The staff has no excuse, but I figured the patrons may have thought it was a practical joke, (in a way it was), never paid attention to the no smoking snipe anyways (plausible) or simply didn't care since the feature started correctly. (Most likely.)

Even when I worked for slave wages at the 8 screen UA I always tried to have the highest presentation standards, despite a no clue manager and no Film Guard. (We did have Xekote which I used only on the gate and trap runners.) I took any presentation issues as a personal failing.

Sadly, despite the promises of digital being the cure-all, seems that we are just as bad if not worse off in some cases.

[William Kucharski]

Any business that tells a customer, "you're the only one who has complained," should not be in business at all. That is a display of sheer absence of professionalism. Leaving it up to customers to notice a problem before thinking about fixing those problems is a very precarious business model.

Even more obvious than the "you're the only one who's complained" is once they know the theater is messed up… they will continue to run shows in the theater until AMC tech support gets back to them, assuming they even call them, as readmit passes are cheaper to issue to whiners like me than closing down the screen until it's fixed.

(Needless to say, I offered to take a peek at the wiring in the booth to see if it was something simple like the wiring from the processor being wrong, but naturally they declined.)

Sadly, despite the promises of digital being the cure-all, seems that we are just as bad if not worse off in some cases.

Actually, it's worse.

When film was in use generally there had to be someone on site who knew something about the projectors, adjusting focus, etc.

Today it's either entirely automated or one of the popcorn kids is told to run upstairs and press the button to start the show.

Sometimes the manager or GM will know how to fix basic issues, sometimes not.

At least once I watched an entire auditorium get a refund when the timer didn't fire to start the show and no one in the building knew what to do.

Then again this has happened to me three times now, twice at Fathom showings and once a preview: the entire audience was seated, ready to go and the show never started, because the theater never got the DCP keys but waited until fifteen minutes after show time to let the audience know "in case they showed up."

I really felt for the theater on the third one - it was a pre-release showing of Toy Story 4 so the auditorium was filled with a sold-out crowd of parents with two to three kids each.

After the requisite fifteen minutes I left and asked the manager what was up, he told me and issued me a refund but said they were going to keep trying to get the keys for another 15 minutes before letting the audience know.

I wouldn't have wanted to be the one walking into that theater of kids half an hour late to tell them there wasn't going to be a show; I called later and talked to the manager and he confirmed the keys never came.

[Bobby Henderson]

Yeah, I think attention to detail and show quality in particular is generally worse now at multiplex theaters. The chains are routinely staffing their multiplex sites at the bare minimum. All the grunt-level employees are in the lobby selling concessions; the manager is in a back office slaving over paperwork. No one is doing auditorium checks.

This issue is worsened by the growing trend of "booth-less" auditoriums in newer multiplex builds. In the past a typical multiplex would have a long booth on a second floor that provided easy access to every projector and platter setup. It wouldn't take one employee more than a minute to pace down the booth and do a quick visual check through each port glass. Today the projector is being stuffed in some tiny closet up in the top/back of the auditorium. That cost-saving design makes it far more time consuming to do quality control checks. The worker has to walk all the way into each auditorium. If there is a policy against mobile phone use it's harder catch the offenders versus being able to catch them by looking out of the projector port.

In the past a lot of film-based setups had alarm systems to warn if there was some kind of problem. I'm not aware such alarm systems are being put to use with current d-cinema setups. Even if employees are aware of the problem there may not be anyone on site qualified to do anything about it. The typical suburban multiplex is staffed with some minimal paid employees and a manager who is not getting paid all that well either.

I don't know what it is... is it laziness or just pure ignorance... or something else? It happened as recently as the latest Batman movie... the screen went dark, but audio kept playing. Well, it is a dark movie, but after a minute without something on screen but the audio continuing to blast on all channels, it should be obvious to anybody, something went wrong.

I suppose it's possible some people are too embarrassed or not confident enough to go tell theater staff there is a problem with the show. Still I mainly get the vibe they just don't want to get out of their seats.

[Marcel Birgelen]

In the past a lot of film-based setups had alarm systems to warn if there was some kind of problem. I'm not aware such alarm systems are being put to use with current d-cinema setups. Even if employees are aware of the problem there may not be anyone on site qualified to do anything about it. The typical suburban multiplex with some minimal paid employees and a manager not getting paid all that well either.

The funny thing is, there is a lot more you can monitor with modern, digital equipment than you could ever do with older, analog equipment.

You can monitor alert and error conditions from the projector, server and audio-processor. Many modern amps are also IP connected and also allow quite a lot of parameters to be monitored.

Sure, there may still be a lot of conditions that will not be caught using this kind of monitoring, but something rather obvious, like a failed lamp or major error condition can be easily caught.

The problem here is tough, technology is complex and a lot of people don't know shit about the stuff they end up being responsible for. If there is some actual monitoring system in place and it coughs up a lot of false positives, for example, you'll see that, instead of fixing the actual problem and/or the monitoring system, warnings and failures tend to get ignored by default.

[Carsten Kurz]

I'm wondering why TMS do not sound an alarm when feature film aspect ratio or audio sound field indicators do not match presets in the playlist. That wouldn't be complicated to implement and could catch some typical mistakes we read about on this forum quite often, especially happening in non-owner-operated multiplexes and the like. The trouble then is, someone would still have to take notice of the alarm, and if he/she is illiterate, the result would be the same. The same person could just as well ignore all the red lights as long as there is an image on the screen and some sound to hear.

[Frank Cox]

I don't see why it would be difficult to have warnings when you are setting up playlists. "You are putting a scope aspect asset into a flat playlist. Are you sure you want do do that?"

I always triple-check my F's and S's because that's such an easy error to make.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I don't see why it would be difficult to have warnings when you are setting up playlists. "You are putting a scope aspect asset into a flat playlist. Are you sure you want do do that?"

I always triple-check my F's and S's because that's such an easy error to make.

It's trivial for you, because you know the difference between Scope and Flat. Do you really think that the average popcorn artist* actually knows about stuff like aspect ratios? It's like your average office worker where a popup comes up...

Hey, what you're doing is stupid and will f*ck stuff up, do you really want to continue?

[ YES ] [ NO ]

Most people will just blindly click on "YES", because it's "computer stuff" they don't care about and let someone else care about the consequences...

Like Carsten indicated, it's not that difficult to build a system to check if some basic setup parameters match the presets, but when nobody cares about the alarms anyway, those systems are a futile attempt to begin with. It all starts with giving a damn and sadly, many fail right at that step.

* Popcorn Artist in line with that "fantastic" rubbery sandwich chain called "Subway", who dare to call their employees "Sandwich Artist". I'm pretty sure the one who came up with that term is a sadist by nature.