Film Club & VHS Lounge

[Nathan Charles]

I have purchased a restaurant where the previous owners had built a makeshift screening room right next to the dining area (30 seats inside), they would license a new release movie each week and run it like an indie cinema with limited screenings. I loved this place but their business model wasn’t bringing in crowds because of how niche the movies were. We’re trying to sort out a new model for operation and wanted to run it by theater professionals for feedback. The screening room is too small to be a proper DCP cinema or major exhibition space from what I’ve researched, but it could operate as a microcinema or film club. We’re thinking of giving members access to our film library and VHS lounge (with CRT TVs in each viewing booth) and also freedom to watch repertory programming in the screening room. No tickets to showings, once you’re in the building watch whatever you want either in a booth or in the screening room.

I have consulted with a copyright lawyer and have studied the laws as best I can and have also got a rep at MPLC who has helped me cover my bases.

MPLC said the lounge was considered non-theatrical. So as long as I don’t advertise what films play in the screening room or use any specific IP to draw a crowd, we can operate. So members can come in (or get a day pass if they’re not a member yet) and watch whatever is playing in the screening room that day or pop in a movie in one of our vhs booths.

I want to cultivate a space for movie fans to enjoy films and see ones they missed from previous decades. Also VHS is fun on the tiny TVs. I will continue to license individual titles once a week as well so that we showcase new independent films on weekends.

Here’s a couple questions if anyone reads this:
what is the best way to source quality digital files for Playlisting either with Playback pro, Proludio or Qlab? I want to automate 3-5 movies in a playlist each day to run in the screening room with buit in intermissions, no trailers or ads. Should I buy the 4K download codes online from resellers or is there a better route? MPLC umbrella license covers most of the major studios and states that any format is acceptable as long as the copy of the film is obtained legally. So Blu-ray could work but I’d like to do 4K whenever possible. (I’ve got a 12 ft wide screen, epson LS11000 projector)

Also seasoned theater operators, please feel free to critique or supplement my plan/dream/schemes. I’m thinking about this constantly and I’ve been all over this forum the last few months. Figured I should just ask the F-T community for some insight.

I would like to run a unique third space but want to do it efficiently to cultivate an appreciation for going out to watch something. I can’t sacrifice the quality of the screenings because even though it’s not a true cinema I want the exhibition to be the best it can be. Otherwise why do it?

(Sorry if this too long and thanks for reading!)

Nate

[Ryan Gallagher]

Add this to a growing list of people i'm aware of trying to do things with the "forbidden format". lol. There is a VHS film festival now. And a friend involved in a drive-in project wants to do some stuff with VHS too in other spaces on the property.

Austin had a restaurant at one point that showed silent and b&w classics on a couple architectural spaces in the lofted ceiling as ambiance. Worked quite well actually, though nobody planned their trip based on what they were playing.

Nostalgia is weird. If you are going to specialize in weird formats and lounge experiences, perhaps consider getting some suitable 16mm projectors (if there is a place to put them) and get on those forums where people share those prints too.

On the automation subject. It is really going to depend on our source media/formats I think. If you are getting encrypted DCP downloads obviously the software you listed can't handle those, but it could automate talking to the DCP server/media-block and controlling a playlist. But it didn't sound like DCP/DCI was your goal here.

If the umbrella licensing covers you, consider a library as a resource? and rip your copies for playback to a format that works with your system? Not sure if making a "backup" of a library copy is considered kosher within the scope of any MPLC context. Buying the DVDs/VHS/Blu-Rays is safer (cause you own a copy). The umbrella license may also cover streamed content from apple/android devices, 4K is available there too on some titles depending on your projector and devices in the chain.

I'm unsure of what you mean by "buy a 4K download from online re-sellers"? Are you talking about Apple/Amazon/Netflix etc? Cause I wouldn't really call those downloads, since they are still controlled within the ecosystem, and often you get a lower download quality than you do a streamed version.

How you approach this business model probably varies widely by legal jusidiction.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Maybe populating a plex media server would be the way to manage your rep digital titles you own, output from that can always be captured or frame-buffered into tools like qlab.

I assume you are a Mac person since you mentioned Playback Pro and Qlab in the same sentence?

I also forgot about a favorite little ramen shop pre-pandemic that used to show anime titles in their tiny dining room too.

[Nathan Charles]

Thanks for the insight! The download codes may not actually work for 4K but basically people who buy the Blu-ray and then have a digital download code included often sell the digital download code if they don’t want to get the file online. They sell them for $3-5 typically from what I’ve seen. Basically just a cheaper way to build a digital library for repertory film titles is what I’m thinking

[Ryan Gallagher]

Thanks for the insight! The download codes may not actually work for 4K but basically people who buy the Blu-ray and then have a digital download code included often sell the digital download code if they don’t want to get the file online. They sell them for $3-5 typically from what I’ve seen. Basically just a cheaper way to build a digital library for repertory film titles is what I’m thinking

Hmm, I'm not aware of this DLC model and I handle a fair bit of Blu-Rays, but admittedly i'm usually not reading the packaging. I have seen ones that are tied to a studio platform, so like you get a code to add the title to your digital libraries... but it's not a true download there either, back to that ecosystem topic.

[Ryan Gallagher]

The idea of trying to make a "VHS Booth" work as a concept is both hilarious and fascinating.

My first instincts would be they can't be vanilla booths. They need themes, decorated like shrines to particular films, directors, or genres. Hell they don't even have to be film-related themes, as long as each one has a unique vibe.

I expect only die-hard folks would watch a film alone in one, thus they need to at least accommodate seating for 2 or a tight 3.

Booth privacy and the more intimate the seating the better, cause I could see these becoming popular "date night" destinations with kids who really just want a place for making out. It might actually work quite well in that regard cause it is a semi-public space, empowering folks who don't want things to get carried away to lean on the location as providing some level of safe-space concept. Even safer than a regular cinema, cause exiting a booth is much easier to manage physically and socially than trying to escape a proper cinema to somewhere with people around.

Go nuts with mood lighting, fairy lights, fake candles, shrine type stuff, color LED tape or fixtures with a controller the occupant can manipulate.

Make it about the booth, not about the VHS or the film?

Audio is a bit tricky... dual wired headphones would be best quality but no one likes sharing public headphones. Maybe at least provide a two output headphone amp for people that want to bring their own. The built in speakers on the TV/VCR combos are awful. Anything speaker driven is going to have booth isolation issues too. Blu-tooth is just starting to be an option but unfortunately most blu-tooth transmitters and headphones introduce a ton of delay, unless you explicitly buy units (both ends) that support BT AptX (low latency protocol), and even then it's not perfect.

If one was committed to user-supplied bluetooth headphones, I'd be tempted to play with output, capture, video-delay, and re-display. But would require a whack ton of ancient composite video capture and playback hardware that is all hard to come by now, all reading from and talking to a crappy TV/VHS combo device. A knob in the booth could control the amount of video delay to sync with the per screening blu-tooth reality.

[Nathan Charles]

We’re going that direction for sure as far as themed booths. Semi-private but not too private for the reasons and potential appeal you mentioned lol

Were within walking distance of two colleges as well so I expect it will be a popular spot to hang out or maybe even study.

The audio has been our main concern we’re trying to deal with. We could go the route of silent disco headphones like they use for a lot of outdoor cinemas now (rooftop cinema club specifically) but they’re easy to steal and a bit pricy to replace.

Soundproofing two or three of the booth walls and then using small speakers might be an option too. Gonna be some trial and error as we get closer to opening!

[Ryan Gallagher]

I have not looked into the underlying tech of the silent disco headphones, but I would assume they use low power FM to avoid delay issues, sort of like how drive ins often did it.

Might be some restrictions on how many transmission channels can operate in the same area, and how many channels you can switch to on the headset.

Yet another approach would be a locally hosted audio stream occupants could access with their phones via wifi (and by association their headphones). But again, BT variants will introduce delay on their end, so does not really solve anything unless wired headphones are involved.

Streams often have delay, but there are ways to force a less resilient real-time version. (Not unlike how the modern dolby assisted listening android devices function, but a roll your own version)

I think a reasonable first brush would be enough isolation that a small speaker is one option, and a multi-output wired headphone amp could also be made available easily.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I have not looked into the underlying tech of the silent disco headphones, but I would assume they use low power FM to avoid delay issues, sort of like how drive ins often did it.

Might be some restrictions on how many transmission channels can operate in the same area, and how many channels you can switch to on the headset.

Yet another approach would be a locally hosted audio stream occupants could access with their phones via wifi (and by association their headphones). But again, BT variants will introduce delay on their end, so does not really solve anything unless wired headphones are involved.

Streams often have delay, but there are ways to force a less resilient real-time version. (Not unlike how the modern dolby assisted listening android devices function, but a roll your own version)

I think a reasonable first brush would be enough isolation that a small speaker is one option, and a multi-output wired headphone amp could also be made available easily.

Bluetooth headphones, not FM...

[Ryan Gallagher]

Bluetooth headphones, not FM...

I believe both variants exist. The Bluetooth ones seem to be consumer knockoffs and probably use AptX to get minimum
latency but to a smaller number of connections. The pro ones for larger crowds/shows appear to operate on radio frequencies, but not necessarily public FM bands. A variety of radio frequencies appear to be deployed depending on manufacturer.

[Harold Hallikainen]

On headphones, I think a headphone jack with people bringing their own earbuds (with cheap ones available for purchase) is the best approach (and is used by airlines). Bluetooth has some latency, but can also be a pain for the user to deal with pairing. Another wireless headphone technique (but typically not bring your own) is to use IR. With optical shielding, you can reuse the channels as often as desired.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I believe both variants exist. The Bluetooth ones seem to be consumer knockoffs and probably use AptX to get minimum
latency but to a smaller number of connections. The pro ones for larger crowds/shows appear to operate on radio frequencies, but not necessarily public FM bands. A variety of radio frequencies appear to be deployed depending on manufacturer.

Bluetooth is the only wireless method that comes to mind, where you can easily have stereo multiples... The USL infrared system might also work. But a stereo version would have to be designed. Harold would know more about that...

[Ed Gordon]

Bluetooth headphones, not FM...

My understanding of Bluetooth is that it is not the best way to get quality audio.

Although Bluetooth technology offers a common way to enjoy wireless audio through speakers and headphones, some people object to Bluetooth because, from an audio fidelity standpoint, you're better off choosing one of the Wi-Fi-based wireless technologies such as AirPlay, DLNA, Play-Fi, or Sonos. While that understanding is generally correct, there's more to using Bluetooth than meets the eye.
A Bit About Bluetooth

Bluetooth was not originally created for audio entertainment, but to connect phone headsets and speakerphones. It was also designed with a very narrow bandwidth, which forces it to apply data compression to an audio signal. While this design may be perfectly fine for phone conversations, it's not ideal for music reproduction. Not only that, but the Bluetooth could be applying this compression on top of data compression that might already exist, such as from digital audio files or sources streamed through the Internet. But one key thing to remember is that a Bluetooth system doesn't have to apply this additional compression.

Source: https://www.lifewire.com/what-to-kno...etooth-3134591

[Ryan Gallagher]

On headphones, I think a headphone jack with people bringing their own earbuds (with cheap ones available for purchase) is the best approach (and is used by airlines). Bluetooth has some latency, but can also be a pain for the user to deal with pairing. Another wireless headphone technique (but typically not bring your own) is to use IR. With optical shielding, you can reuse the channels as often as desired.

Most flights I've taken lately simply have a phone holder and USB charger to access their wifi inflight entertainment selections. The days of in-flight movies on a common screen appear to be over. A microcosm of the larger cinema problem. LOL. Though on flights I feel it is an improvement. The older folks will remember when it wasn't even wired headphones... the in flight headphones were just a pair of air tubes with ear cups on the end. Some speaker somewhere in the plane shoved air around in a box with a bunch of tubes routed to the armrests.

Bluetooth is the only wireless method that comes to mind, where you can easily have stereo multiples... The USL infrared system might also work. But a stereo version would have to be designed. Harold would know more about that...

I believe the OP was talking about already existing "silent disco" headphone systems. Here is an example kit that allows 3 different source channels up to 300ft to unlimited receivers. And I take back what I said about "pro" level gear, most seem to be relatively clones of each other.

"All of the Silent Disco 310's equipment operates at 900 MHz, so there will be no interference from TV, radio, or Wi-Fi."
https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/600...-headphones

But you seem to be onto something about the support or non-support for broadcasting stereo audio. Obviously they all accept stereo inputs. It's not advertised super clearly with the kits and some searching claims the technology relies on mono broadcast, but other product listings seem to mention stereo via frequency modulation.

But as an ecosystem maybe that would only permit 3 booths in a confined space, one for each transmission channel? Unless you found two silent disco brands operating on different spectrums? Even if stereo, seems like a bit of a headache for booths in quantities larger than 3.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

My understanding of Bluetooth is that it is not the best way to get quality audio.

Source: https://www.lifewire.com/what-to-kno...etooth-3134591

Do you happen to know what percentage of the public are audio freaks? Ok, other than me...