Film Club & VHS Lounge

[Ryan Gallagher]

Do you happen to know what percentage of the public are audio freaks? Ok, other than me...

Well in a VHS booth context it is a zero sum game. Either they are and wouldn't dare, or they aren't and it will maybe be a fun experience regardless. The OPs premise of watching them on those tiny TV+VCR combos kinda sets the quality expectations. Failing to mono for a wireless approach probably wouldn't even matter, cause there stereo imaging on those tiny built in speakers could hardly be called stereo to begin with. But I would argue for nostalgia reasons one needs to try to at least do stereo reasonably well. In the VHS era, most people watched on something a little better than a micro TV+VCR combo, and many family rooms had a decent hi-fi hooked up for 2 channel audio at minimum. Picture quality was miserable compared to today's experiences, but I'd wager that with audio many are actually watching movies at home NOW with worse quality audio than in the 70s-90s with VHS and only 2 channels configured.

[Randy Stankey]

VHS tape and CRT televisions are both dead formats. There aren't any companies left that manufacture TVs, VCRs or VHS tape. Technologically, that puts you dead in the water before you even start.

TVs and VCRs need repair and maintenance. Magnetic tape has a finite lifespan, only five to ten years from date of manufacture before they start to degrade. Now, eighteen years, soon to be twenty years after the last movies were produced on VHS, most of those tapes are well on their way to oblivion. Even under perfect storage conditions, the expected lifespan of twenty five years has already come and gone for many movie titles on VHS. What about the televisions? CRTs do wear out. The electron guns degrade, the phosphor degrades and electronic circuits degrade. Those TVs will, eventually stop working, especially under the usage profile you suggest.

Who is going to do your maintenance? VCRs need to be cleaned and calibrated after so many hours of usage. Do you have a VCR technician on staff? Is there anybody still around who is willing or able to do the job? It's not a task for your average home gamer, especially not when your business depends on it. Even then, where are you going to get spare parts or replacement units? At what cost? The cost of legacy technology only goes up after it stops being produced. You could end up paying an arm and a leg for suitable replacements.

VHS video tape was never really meant to be a high-fidelity format. It was only designed to be "good enough" for home use. That is when movies on tape were brand new. Now, after all these years, most of those tapes will be well on their way to being a pile of brown dust. Once all those tapes are degraded beyond use, you'll have nothing left to play for customers and you won't be able to get replacements.

Your scheme might work as a gimmick or promotional device to establish a business and make a name for yourself but it's not going to be a viable strategy for the long term. You are going to have to transition to newer technology sooner or later. You're going to have to spend money to do that. You'll, essentially, have to re-capitalize after only a few years. Can you bank enough savings to do that in the future and still have enough left over to pay your current and ongoing bills?

I'm sorry to say but I don't think even P.T. Barnum could have pulled one off like this.

[Harold Hallikainen]

"All of the Silent Disco 310's equipment operates at 900 MHz, so there will be no interference from TV, radio, or Wi-Fi."
https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/600...-headphones

.

The manual on the Vocopro transmitter has no transmitter specifications, but the receiver manual indicates it operates in the 900 MHz area. There is an FCC notice in the transmitter manual indicating that it meets the FCC class B (residential) digital device rules, but transmitters require an FCC certification. I see no FCC ID in the manual. Looking at https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/repor...ericSearch.cfm and searching with Applicant Name as Vocopro, several systems turn up, but not this one (I only checked the ones with frequencies in the 900 MHz region).

Is this an FCC certified device that can be operated legally in the US?

Finally on IR, the USL/QSC/MIT IRC emitter is a two channel IR emitter (2.3/2.8 MHz). It is typically used for two mono channels (HI/VI), but could be used for stereo. Stereo headphones are available from various suppliers. Because the compressors for the two channels are not connected together, I'd set the compression to 1:1 and use external stereo compression. There are also lower power IR emitters such as https://www.tvears.com/product/original-system/ available where only a short range is required.

Harold

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

VHS tape and CRT televisions are both dead formats. There aren't any companies left that manufacture TVs, VCRs or VHS tape. Technologically, that puts you dead in the water before you even start.

TVs and VCRs need repair and maintenance. Magnetic tape has a finite lifespan, only five to ten years from date of manufacture before they start to degrade. Now, eighteen years, soon to be twenty years after the last movies were produced on VHS, most of those tapes are well on their way to oblivion. Even under perfect storage conditions, the expected lifespan of twenty five years has already come and gone for many movie titles on VHS. What about the televisions? CRTs do wear out. The electron guns degrade, the phosphor degrades and electronic circuits degrade. Those TVs will, eventually stop working, especially under the usage profile you suggest.

Who is going to do your maintenance? VCRs need to be cleaned and calibrated after so many hours of usage. Do you have a VCR technician on staff? Is there anybody still around who is willing or able to do the job? It's not a task for your average home gamer, especially not when your business depends on it. Even then, where are you going to get spare parts or replacement units? At what cost? The cost of legacy technology only goes up after it stops being produced. You could end up paying an arm and a leg for suitable replacements.

VHS video tape was never really meant to be a high-fidelity format. It was only designed to be "good enough" for home use. That is when movies on tape were brand new. Now, after all these years, most of those tapes will be well on their way to being a pile of brown dust. Once all those tapes are degraded beyond use, you'll have nothing left to play for customers and you won't be able to get replacements.

Your scheme might work as a gimmick or promotional device to establish a business and make a name for yourself but it's not going to be a viable strategy for the long term. You are going to have to transition to newer technology sooner or later. You're going to have to spend money to do that. You'll, essentially, have to re-capitalize after only a few years. Can you bank enough savings to do that in the future and still have enough left over to pay your current and ongoing bills?

I'm sorry to say but I don't think even P.T. Barnum could have pulled one off like this.

Well, VHS recorders are super easy to maintain. I attended the very first training class on them in Seacacus when I was a tech there. Then there was Super VHS for a number of years. But it never gained widespread use. Betacam had quite a bit wider video frequency response because of the larger drum diameter. And there was Betacam which also looked good on NTSC (Never The Same Color) But still, nothing beats 2 inch Quad video tape back in the NTSC days. It also became much more reliable through better video tape and ferrite Spin Physics head blocks. BTW: Spin Physics was owned by Kodak for a long time, then sold to Ford. Today, of course, all video is digital.

[Randy Stankey]

Well, VHS recorders are super easy to maintain...

For you! You're an expert!

For me, it would be a doable job but at some difficulty. I could do much or even most but there will be some tasks I am just not up to doing. If it was me, tinkering with VCRs as a hobby or even as a side business, I'd have no problem. If I was doing it to keep somebody else's business alive, I wouldn't even try.

Beta and Super VHS aren't even in the picture, here. The whole business is being built on good, old fashioned, consumer quality VHS. Where would you even find movies on two-inch tape or even Beta? Even if you could, would you be able to license them? If you called up a studio and told them you wanted to exhibit movies on two-inch, they'd probably look at you funny and say, "Wh-a-a-t?"

Let's take all of the above for granted. Let's say that Mark would take on the work of maintaining and repairing VCRs for a business like this. How much would you charge? Could they even pay you enough to get you to set one foot inside their door?

Shipping TVs and VCRs, back and forth, between Missouri and Tennessee so that they can be repaired, maintained and calibrated certainly isn't going to be a viable way to keep a business afloat.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I actually did work for a friend that owned a video rental shop back in the day after I left Canon. I worked that at night and on some days off from the Tee Vee Station I worked at. People brought their broken VCR's to the shop and I repaired them in the back in a shop I had set up. All brands, all sorts a problems. Parts were very easy to get in Chicago... Thankfully, this was in the late 1980's way before the capacitor plague! As far as VHS machines being easier to repair, the head drums are made with such high precision that no dial gauge is needed to make sure it's perfect. While Beta, and Betacam did require a dial indicator to be sure the head was perfect. So did 3/4" and 1" type C machines. With 2", you just slapped on a new head block and did video playback alignment. We didn't record on 2" thankfully, only on 1". It was working at the TV Station and maintaining four film islands that had TP-66's and TK-28 cameras. The Station started referring me to other Stations and Post houses that did film transfer work.

I don't do any of that stuff today. In fact I don't do a dam thing today being retired, except Photography, restore antique self winding clocks, and post stuff on this site and a few others. I had a film camera and projector collection that I passed along not too long ago. I still do have an Ikegami HL-79E in working shape that's been on a couple music videos in the past, and several still working 16mm, and 35mm film cameras and lenses. Time for a nap! LOL... not really.

[Ryan Gallagher]

I think realistically speaking the proposed vhs booth model has little intent to maintain or repair VCRs/CRTs. Rather simply to replace the combo units and tapes via the used market as fast as they wear out. But that is just my read.

it is certainly not a long term idea. Nothing about it smacks of archival type exhibition of a dead format. Just some people having a little fun with media objects from a past era while they still can get them.

[Randy Stankey]

Sure, everybody knows that movies are just a MacGuffin. The real business is in the popcorn stand, the pizza shop, the coffee bar, the beer and wine, the game room or even a full service restaurant.

If you have a nice restaurant that, by itself, serves good food and is profitable, you will turn a good business on just that count. You shouldn't need a MacGuffin. If you're showing movies, it should be an added attraction, not the main attraction. If you're showing movies as a side gig, it's bound to be an expense to the main business. I can't imagine how thirty seats are going to pull in enough tickets to cover their own nut.

If you set up the restaurant with a movie theme with screens all around, showing movies while customers eat at their tables, it might be worthwhile. It would be like a sports bar, only with movies. It would be cool to put in a seating area where people could go off to watch a movie proper.

I think a movie themed restaurant that does the whole Megillah, "Lights, Camera, Action" and all would be cool. If you want to do it with retro-style video instead, I think that would work, too.

I just don't think that putting movies before the restaurant is a good idea, especially when basing it off VHS and CRTs.

I don't think that OP is trying to do that. I'm just saying that I think he should be careful to avoid doing that.

I'm not naysaying. I'm saying, "Be mindful."

[Ryan Gallagher]

Yeah understood Randy. Speaking of nostalgia in that format, anyone remember when Mr. Ghatti’s Pizza places in the US had a couple big screen rooms and one of those early RGB projectors overhead for movies, TV, and cartoons?

if I recall this time period would have overlapped with VHS, so if not watching live TV, if would have been on tape.

Pizza buffet and cartoons, it was a huge hit in my generation for after youth sports team meals etc.

[Randy Stankey]

I don't remember Mr. Ghatti's but I remember some places that had big screen TVs and things. There was (still exists) a place called "Uncle Charlie's" that had a three-tube projection TV. I wouldn't say we went there a lot but it's been a local fixture for years. I haven't been there in a while because I don't live close by anymore. I'm sure the projection TV is gone, by now. I don't know if they've replaced it with anything.

Y'know... If somebody really wants to do the retro-TV thing up right, they could use old, Philco Perspecta TVs! That'd be really cool!

Using actual, vintage Philcos wouldn't be practical but, with a bit of ingenuity, one might be able to make replica TVs with modern displays inside. They could be used to display menus and ads and things.

I dunno'... It'd probably be impractical to use real Philcos and prohibitively expensive to build replicas but I think it's a cool idea!

[Ryan Gallagher]

The manual on the Vocopro transmitter has no transmitter specifications, but the receiver manual indicates it operates in the 900 MHz area. There is an FCC notice in the transmitter manual indicating that it meets the FCC class B (residential) digital device rules, but transmitters require an FCC certification. I see no FCC ID in the manual. Looking at https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/repor...ericSearch.cfm and searching with Applicant Name as Vocopro, several systems turn up, but not this one (I only checked the ones with frequencies in the 900 MHz region).

Is this an FCC certified device that can be operated legally in the US?

Finally on IR, the USL/QSC/MIT IRC emitter is a two channel IR emitter (2.3/2.8 MHz). It is typically used for two mono channels (HI/VI), but could be used for stereo. Stereo headphones are available from various suppliers. Because the compressors for the two channels are not connected together, I'd set the compression to 1:1 and use external stereo compression. There are also lower power IR emitters such as https://www.tvears.com/product/original-system/ available where only a short range is required.

Harold

No idea if all silent disco type products are following all the FCC rules for 2.4 or 900mhz, two of the low power unlicensed bands in the US.

Those would be the same bands every cheap RF product operates on such as baby monitors, several wireless lighting control protocols, etc etc. “Residential” is a bit of a stretch, plenty of these things used in the field. Silent discos themselves were popular on trade show floors for a time period.

[Nathan Charles]

I think realistically speaking the proposed vhs booth model has little intent to maintain or repair VCRs/CRTs. Rather simply to replace the combo units and tapes via the used market as fast as they wear out. But that is just my read.

it is certainly not a long term idea. Nothing about it smacks of archival type exhibition of a dead format. Just some people having a little fun with media objects from a past era while they still can get them.

Accurate read yes. The outdoor screen we’re building is the main attraction I think. Similar to rooftop cinema in California/Texas, the booths are just a fun attraction that I think I can maintain through marketplace and stockpile of working VCRs when I find them cheap!

I appreciate the insight Randy and you make good points. I’m fortunate to be in a town with little to do and a young adult demo that doesn’t have any affordable entertainment or hangout spots available to them.

I think the retro lounge, repertory cinema inside and the outdoor screen/beer garden will have a good draw once we get the word out. At least that’s my hope! lol

[Nathan Charles]

I don't remember Mr. Ghatti's but I remember some places that had big screen TVs and things. There was (still exists) a place called "Uncle Charlie's" that had a three-tube projection TV. I wouldn't say we went there a lot but it's been a local fixture for years. I haven't been there in a while because I don't live close by anymore. I'm sure the projection TV is gone, by now. I don't know if they've replaced it with anything.

Y'know... If somebody really wants to do the retro-TV thing up right, they could use old, Philco Perspecta TVs! That'd be really cool!

Using actual, vintage Philcos wouldn't be practical but, with a bit of ingenuity, one might be able to make replica TVs with modern displays inside. They could be used to display menus and ads and things.

I dunno'... It'd probably be impractical to use real Philcos and prohibitively expensive to build replicas but I think it's a cool idea!

my business partner is the kind of guy who might be able to pull this off. Also someone who does repair for VCRs but we figured replacing them as they break would be a lot easier/quicker.

if we got modern display in a classic tv box that would be awesome and much easier to service and maintain. Hadn’t thought of that!

[Ryan Gallagher]

if you wanted to get really silly along those lines, each booth could have a TV representative of an particular technology era (or a reproduction of one). You could use this to inform the "theme" of the decorations too perhaps. Making them all able to play color VHS would be "interesting".

B&W
Circular Tube TVs
Vintage "Console" TVs
Color Era
Your TV+VCR Combo
Trinatron