SNMP Trap problems on Wind Blows 10.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I haven't had it self start again in going on three months. I am pretty sure once you disable a service that it stays disabled. I would think if some other feature needed it that you would get a pop up warning that it has to be on. I might just turn on if left in manual mode though...

You may want to check this article. I'm not making it up, it happened to me too, back when Windows 10 was still "fresh".

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

When it was still "fresh" it was killing computers in theaters with the auto update from W-7. I probably had to re-do 4 or 5 booth computers this happened to. I found a little app that detected that auto update, or upgrade, and it would keep it from happening. Anyway, mine has not attempted an update now in three months.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Yeah, I'd say it never really was fresh, it arrived in a half-baked state, but eventually we've learned to live with it, like with so many of Microsoft's Windows iterations. The upgrade campaign was particularly painful and deceptive, I remember many people blowing up their Windows install by clicking one of those popups Microsoft delivered to those who held back on the update. Even my wife blew her then-notebook by clicking on one of those links, only to face a machine that barely functioned the next morning

Microsoft is facing an increasing reluctance of people to upgrade their software and you can hardly blame them. If you look at the "leaked" Windows 11 preview, what's there to get excited about?

- A new startup sound?
- Rounded corners around my windows?
- Centered quick-launch icons on my taskbar instead of left-aligned ones?
- Yet another start menu, one that looks as generic as the current "settings" window?

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Yeah, I'd say it never really was fresh, it arrived in a half-baked state, but eventually we've learned to live with it, like with so many of Microsoft's Windows iterations. The upgrade campaign was particularly painful and deceptive, I remember many people blowing up their Windows install by clicking one of those popups Microsoft delivered to those who held back on the update. Even my wife blew her then-notebook by clicking on one of those links, only to face a machine that barely functioned the next morning

Microsoft is facing an increasing reluctance of people to upgrade their software and you can hardly blame them. If you look at the "leaked" Windows 11 preview, what's there to get excited about?

- A new startup sound?
- Rounded corners around my windows?
- Centered quick-launch icons on my taskbar instead of left-aligned ones?
- Yet another start menu, one that looks as generic as the current "settings" window?

I completely agree it arrived half baked. It killed a small desktop I have although that same desktop runs the current version just fine., To me, the current version is actually very stable and a little easier to use than it used to be and most of the updates are security related. But since I run a software based firewall on the output of my router I am not too worried about hackers...

[Tony Bandiera Jr]

Well I finally got pissed off enough at my old computer that I destroyed it, took out the old hard drive and memory (and the speakers for S&Gs) and threw that piece of in the trash. I am pretty sure it didn't have any viruses, but did have damaged sectors and lots of corrupted files. I will take that drive to my computer shop for a proper scan to be sure it doesn't have computer herpes so I can move my critical stuff off of it to the new laptop.

I did get a cheap ACER with a 128gig SSD and 4g of memory. It works ok (love the SSD and the lightning fast bootups and shutdowns.) for what I will be using it for. I am in the process of moving to my new place next month so don;t have the time or money to invest in a much better laptop, so this one will have to do for now. Only thing I hate about this new computer is neither Caps lock or Num lock have ANY indicators at all, not even a led in the keys or an on-screen icon.

And yes, the very second day I had this new l-top, I got the popup for Windork 11. Hey Microsoftdick, I got a few things for ya:

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Well I finally got pissed off enough at my old computer that I destroyed it, took out the old hard drive and memory (and the speakers for S&Gs) and threw that piece of in the trash. I am pretty sure it didn't have any viruses, but did have damaged sectors and lots of corrupted files. I will take that drive to my computer shop for a proper scan to be sure it doesn't have computer herpes so I can move my critical stuff off of it to the new laptop.

I did get a cheap ACER with a 128gig SSD and 4g of memory. It works ok (love the SSD and the lightning fast bootups and shutdowns.) for what I will be using it for. I am in the process of moving to my new place next month so don;t have the time or money to invest in a much better laptop, so this one will have to do for now. Only thing I hate about this new computer is neither Caps lock or Num lock have ANY indicators at all, not even a led in the keys or an on-screen icon.

And yes, the very second day I had this new l-top, I got the popup for Windork 11. Hey Microsoftdick, I got a few things for ya:

You just threw it out? You mean you didn't recycle it? Don't let the tree huggers in Idaho find this out. Also, 4 gigs of RAM is not enough for Wind Blows 10. 8 Minimum!! I just configured a brand new TMS for a customer that had a 4 GHZ I-5 processor and 16 gigs of ram. The thing is faster than blue blazes...The theater owners grandson built it.

[Scott Norwood]

Also, 4 gigs of RAM is not enough for Wind Blows 10.

Agreed, for running anything beyond Notepad (or maybe the CP650 software). It's totally beyond me that manufacturers are _still_ seilling prebuilt machines in 2021 that have 4GB of RAM and mechanical SATA hard disks (in small sizes, like 250-500GB). There's really no reason for them to be selling these (or people to be buying them) now that RAM and flash are cheap. Even Aunt Millie (who only uses her computer for email and Facebook) deserves better than this crap, which was sub-standard a decade ago. Mechanical disks really only make sense in large capacities now.

The Windows 11 thing looks like a big disappointment, too. TPM required and UEFI only. That is going to make obsolete hardware that is being sold in 2021, and Aunt Millie is probably not going to want to go into the BIOS configuration to enable these things, even if they are supported on her machine, which otherwise works fine. The supported list of processors also drops many recently manufactured ones, although they will probably work fine, anyway. MS has historically been pretty good about supporting older hardware and software (perhaps too good, keeping alive garbage that should have been dead), but that seems to no longer be the case, which is ironic now that progress in hardware has somewhat stalled.

[Bruce Cloutier]

This is a great thread. I felt compelled to review it. I think that falls under the category of "Misery loves company."

In one of Chuck Lorre's vanity cards, the paragraph or two that flashes up at the end of an episode for a second, which caught my eye said something along the lines of "Problems with solutions are not problems. Problems without a solution are not problems, they are facts.". My wife and I try to see how far we can read into these things in the time allotted. One just said "Uh-Oh". I got through that one.

I too have grown to despise Microsoft for many reasons. There is not much any of us can do about it. I suppose we can vote with our feet as I have. But then you get into the discussion as to whether or not the grass is truly greener on the other side of the fence.

Steve mentions that ALL software has problems. He is right. For the past decade I have developed code with the specific intent to not incorporate a byte from any third party. If there are problems I want the buck to stop here (I guess I am into these phrases today). I wrote it so I can absolutely fix it and right now, providing a solution immediately (assuming that we can replicate it). Even at this, I agree with Steve and am perfectly willing to include my works of art in that category.

Technology is failing. The vector no longer points skyward. As we technologically can do bigger and better things, it is the drive to implement this as cheaply and quickly as possible (to make as much much off it as possible) that leaves us in a one step forward, two or more backward reality. But what amplifies the situation even more is our feeling of helplessness and willingness to accept the way things are. Perhaps not even recognizing the slow decay.

Only us old farts remember the days when you ran a computer program and the results we identical every time. You know, that did not surprise us. It is not the case now. Once something works doesn't mean it will always work. That is a fact that we all accept at this point.

Einstein said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result." But that is exactly what technology has led us to. And it is fact. Things won't work the same every time. We are not insane. Civilization is insane.

Well. It's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[Carsten Kurz]

..........

[Marcel Birgelen]

Well. It's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

I don't think you're wrong, but maybe you should take it with a great dose of sarcasm, at least that's how I manage not to get sad by the state of affairs everything related to technology seems to be in.

I'm old enough to remember the days when I got excited about new technology and the possibilities it could bring. Nowadays, every time I read or hear about "something new", I'm only thinking about how this thing will explode in our collective faces. Maybe, that's why over time Brazil (1985) has become one of my favorite movies, at least the Terry Gilliam approved version of it. I guess a world in which we slowly succumb to our own bureaucracy and failing technology is even more likely than a world in which we succumb to some great new dictator, knowing that their efforts will be hampered by the same failing technology we all face each day...

I don't hate Microsoft as much as I did like 20 years ago and maybe we're putting too much blame on a single company, but what I blame Microsoft for is for more or less starting the trend:
"If you can't make it good, at least make it look good."
-- Bill Gates

Because, I'm also old enough to remember a time, where bugs were deemed an anomaly and not the norm.

Still, I'm an optimist at heart. Everything takes time, but you're now starting to see a slow, but growing revolt by the masses. People aren't eager to upgrade their computers, because the ones they have now finally do what they need to do and they have mostly worked out of how to jump through the remaining burning hoops. Adoption cycles of new technology seem to be trending downwards, which gives corporations the time to fix the stuff that's already out there.

Imagine a world in which we would have all the technology we had today, but it would all just work and it would all seamlessly interface with each other? Utopia may happen within our lifetime.

[Bruce Cloutier]

Well. It's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

I should credit Dennis Miller for that line by the way.

Remember when it didn't run right so you went home cleaned and set the gap on the plugs? Checked the points and maybe replaced the coil? Then you went back out there and kept on cruising? I bet the older guys here who ran film projectors with simple tube audio amplifiers and absolutely no automation (or even an idea that such a thing would be helpful) can relate to the analogy.

Everything gets more and more complex and it is far past the point that no one person can troubleshoot and fix anything themselves let alone under pressure and maybe not delay the next show or shows. Worse now you can't even get a timely fix from the manufacturer. Sometimes you can't even find the manufacturer.

Bowling alleys had their own machine shops in the back and many still run the old machines... because they can fix them even if they have to make their own replacement parts. People who can machine parts out of thin air are getting hard to find too. Kids want to go to college and learn to program video games.

So Windows is an issue in part because you have less and less control over what the system, that you are relying on, is doing. Worse, it is constantly changing and not necessarily for the good. That kind of destroys the adage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Basically when everything is functioning perfectly some jamoke in a fancy suit in a corporate office someplace thinks it needs to be fixed and that you aren't smart enough to make that determination for yourself. Even if you try (turn update off) they argue (run Update Medic that turns it back on) and fight with you (make Update Medic so you cannot stop it).

That's why all of our production equipment is disconnected from the network. So when the Cylons attack we can still make JNIORs.

Just saying.

[Bruce Cloutier]

We've gotten off-topic. I had been meaning to ask since I have never really gotten into using SNMP. How important is this protocol to this market? The JNIOR supports it because one of you asked for it many Moons ago. I am not sure it is used all that often. Maybe I need to be enlightened?

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Its important if you want your device reporting various events. Those are generally sent to an SNMP manager of sorts where they can be viewed or emailed out as an alert. Am not aware of anything newer that replaces it, but there very well could be. Wind Blows 10 as shipped has that feature set to manual, but there is also free SNMP apps available if needed. Free SNMP Trap is just one of them.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Everything gets more and more complex and it is far past the point that no one person can troubleshoot and fix anything themselves let alone under pressure and maybe not delay the next show or shows. Worse now you can't even get a timely fix from the manufacturer. Sometimes you can't even find the manufacturer.

That's the reason why it's even more important for stuff to just work. New technology will be based on top of existing technology and if we keep stacking make-shift solution on top of it other, we shouldn't be surprised the end-result is one wobbly mess...

We've gotten off-topic. I had been meaning to ask since I have never really gotten into using SNMP. How important is this protocol to this market? The JNIOR supports it because one of you asked for it many Moons ago. I am not sure it is used all that often. Maybe I need to be enlightened?

SNMP comes in three basic varieties: (It also comes in different versions, but that's less relevant for the discussion)
- The most used is the "pull" aspect, where you ask the SNMP agent on a certain host for certain values and this agent simply returns the requested values.
- Then there is the SNMP trap aspect, which allows your device to send "events" or rather "traps" to a certain host, usually when some kind of alarm condition has been reached.
- Lastly, there is also a configuration aspect, although this isn't really actively being used anymore. But the SNMP protocol doesn't only allow you to read values, it also allows you to set values, as long as the host allows you to do so.

SNMP is still by far the most-used protocol for network monitoring. So called "Network Monitoring Software" or NMS software lets you monitor your network via SNMP and also many of the connected hosts. It's one of the few open and generic protocols that allows you to do so.

We use SNMP extensively, not only to monitor hosts/servers, like their CPU, memory and disk usage, but also to monitor switches and routers, to get a good insight of the load of several network segments. I think that this protocol is very useful and any device that can be monitored via SNMP is welcome, as otherwise, you'd require some kind of specific agent to be able to monitor that device.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

A note on disabling the Wind Blows 10 auto update. I went into Component Services and turned mine back to automatic. Then I applied the settings in Group Policy to allow the computers I was setting up to manually update. Guess where that put the setting in "Component Services" to? Manual!! But there is one advantage to doing that in Group Policy... And that is, there is a warning at the top that says this function (the update) is 'Controlled By Your Organization..... Then down under the Update button is another that says "Automatic Windows Updates Have Been Disabled'...

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